Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, and welcome to a time to thrill. It's me, your host, Amy Austin. Welcome to October. Finally, it is not hot. It was hot in Budapest. Unseasonably warm. It was a hell of a September in Los Angeles. But maybe now I can have some, if not normalized weather, more agreeable weather. Okay, weather's boring.
This month I have the joy of interviewing performer actor comedian Toruko Nakajima.
So let me say this. I go to a lot of shows in LA, you know, by myself, and I will see anything.
Well, almost anything. But I'm always looking for, like, the next, like, brilliant thing. And I have to suffer through many not so brilliant things to get there. So on a Friday night, and I don't go out on Friday night because I like to get up and exercise super early Saturday morning. So those are not compatible. But I was kind of jet lagged, so I was kind of willing to do anything. So on a Friday night, I went to this show called Made in America, starring Taruko.
I don't like to read ahead of time. I think the poster may have said, like, she tells her life story, and the picture of her is very cheerful with a daughter. I'll have a link in the show notes. So I'm like, who knows what I'm walking into?
It was literally one of the best one woman, one person shows that I have seen in a long time, and I see a lot of them. It is. She describes it actually in the podcast in one sentence, which I appreciate because I'm not so good at short descriptions, but she taught. It is a show about her life. So she was born and raised in Japan, and at 22 moved to the US, lived in New York and then LA, and she's 44, so we're talking about half her life, Japan, and half her life in the US. But the story, the show, to be honest, is sad and tragic. I mean, she grew up in a house where her mother was an alcoholic and her father was very violently abusive.
She tells a joke, I don't know, it's a joke in the show about how her father replaced televisions very often because he broke them so often. And, you know, her mother visits, her mother's visits to the hospital and things like that. I mean, like, true, like out and out violence and also like, you know, alcoholism and it. I don't know what I thought I was gonna walk into, but this was not it. And though it was tragic, there's a lot of humor throughout. She dances and is very dramatic in the way she presents it. So it's really humorous, but also relatable. And it was just one of the best things I ever saw. I got up the next day and I called a friend, and I was like, literally, I have to tell you all about this. This is the best thing I ever saw. And what she said to me was something I didn't actually expect. She goes, you know, you can have her on the podcast. And I thought, oh, my God.
So I reached out to her and Toruko and invited her on, and she said yes. So what follows is a lovely conversation where we talk about her using art to pull her through tragedy. And it is such a. An amazing thing that she does and so resilient and so therapeutic to witness someone able to not only talk about that kind of past, but to work through it, to develop it for the stage, to develop it for audiences and heal herself somewhat with it.
So. So I can't wait for you to hear that.
The other thing, I guess I'll tell you, is that I now have. I can't believe this in my hand galleys for his last mistress, which comes out in January.
So, you know, the book is done, and you're looking at paper in your hand.
It's amazing. It also. Oh, my God. Maybe this is like the whole milieu in which I'm living right now. It is also a story of abuse, but nothing one, I guess, with a triumph. And I do really love this book, and I can't wait to share with you this story, Lulu's story, essentially, which starts, oh, many books ago, I think it reunited. And it's a frog in the potential story, maybe a lobster in the pot, where it's just like, it just ratchets up so slowly that it's all but invisible to maybe her and even her friends. And I don't think people take it seriously enough what is going on in her life. But you have the opportunity in this book to find out what happens. And this book is a little different. It's a little bit more of a psychological thriller, but it also features both the point of view of Nicole Long and Casey court as they progress in their life journey.
I love where the book goes. I love the story. It's not a happy story, but I love the story. And I love where it ends up. I really like where Casey ends up, and I like some of the realizations that Nicole Long has.
Interestingly, I was talking to my son because we have a standing joke. I think it once referred to Casey Cord as my friend, not ironically. And it's just a standing joke. But when I was thinking about it the other day, I started the first Casey court book, maybe in the late nineties. So she has been with me. Oh, my God, maybe, like, 26 years, which is a really long time to live with a character and write about her. And I can't wait to share with you the evolution that she's made. All that said, life's good. Life's good. There are happy things going on. But this interview, I guess maybe you should even have a trigger warning. So if you're at all sensitive to topics about abuse, then maybe, listen, I will say this with one eye closed and one eye open, but I do love the talk, and I think it's something that everyone needs to hear. So without further ado, my interview with Toruko Nakajima.
Hi. Welcome to a time to thrill. This is me, your host, Amy Austin. This month, I have the utter delight of interviewing Toruko Nakajima. Hi.
[00:07:39] Speaker B: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: So what I was saying off Mike, and I will repeat it. So, for the listeners. A couple of weeks ago, it was August 30, so I don't know. Yeah, probably a couple of weeks ago, somebody sent me an email, and they're like, you should see this woman show. And I was like, it's Friday night. I'm not a night person. I get up and exercise early in the morning. I'm not a night person. And I was like, but it's the Hudson theater. I was like, it's, like, less than 2 miles away. I can probably drive over. I go there often for random shows. So I drove over, parked my car, went in, and your show blew me away. It was. I've seen a lot of one person, one man, one woman shows, and it was amazing. So I have about a thousand questions.
So how did you develop the show? So can you describe the show for the listeners?
[00:08:38] Speaker B: Yes. It's a show about my life and my struggle, about all the obstacles in life and how I managed to survive and how I bond with my dog Titi.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: Who's in the show?
[00:09:03] Speaker B: Who's in the show?
[00:09:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: So I have to, first, the first thing I want to ask you, the thing that I think I didn't expect in the show. So I walk in, and you're wearing. I don't know how to describe a dress. We would call it, like, a flapper dress, but that's of my age, but addressed with a lot of fringe. And in the show, you indicate that you had gone to dance school, so you're dancing the show. Extremely. Like, well, it was just. I did not expect it, but it was a super interesting element for you to bring in. So you're trained as a dancer. What other training did you have traditionally? I mean, beginning in the. In the beginning.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: In the beginning, I.
I started dancing and singing, which I didn't use in the show because singing requires my vocal conditions all the time, so I didn't want to depend on singing ability, but I did singing and dancing and swimming.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Okay, that's not going to be in the show. And I've seen shows of water on stage, so that's its own thing.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: So when did you move from Japan to the US? How old were you?
[00:10:18] Speaker B: I was 22, and that was 2002.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: Wow. So at this point, you're half here, half there. So you will now, at this point in your life, you will have lived here longer than you live there. So in this show, you talked about growing up with a family with alcoholism and violence. And one of the reasons I related to it is because I grew up in a family with a alcoholism, violence. Yay. It's not great, but it is what it is. As a child, you can't change that. But it's something that I find that people are talking about more, but not a lot. And you were so very frank in your descriptions of your mother and father's behavior. Have you always been that open, that topic? I mean, I find that most people I know who have that kind of background are more or less secretive about it.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: Yes, I definitely was secretive, too, because I didn't know that was not known. So every time when I talk about it, and everybody was so shocked, so I stopped talking about it since I was like ten or twelve. Yes. But then I always knew something's wrong. And when I became adult and came to America and I started to watch a lot of movies and tv shows and stuff, and then finally, the reason why I wanted to come out more, frankly, was a movie called moonlight.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: Oh, okay.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Moonlight was so, so open about the domestic violence and all their abuse, and I was like, it's so beautiful. It's not a beautiful as in a fact, but it's beautiful that you're gonna use the platform of art to express the.
The heinousness and all the sad stories. And using art is beautiful. And I wanted to try to not copy, but transform my experience to art. So that's how I decided to think about doing it.
[00:12:51] Speaker A: Were you? It's okay. I will say this, the show was heavy.
I mean, there's elements of humor and light, but the topics tend to be heavy. Did you worry about having audiences relating to that or not being, I don't want to say scared. It's hard to, I can't think of the right word. But I have found, like, even reading reviews of things that talk about topics, abuse or anything like that, the reviewers are always, I don't say shocked, but they really very tentative in talking about it.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: And I wonder if you had worried about the same experience from audiences.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: I did. I did. Because it was 50 50, because sometimes, sometimes they are related and sometimes they're not. So I wanted to warn them before that it's, we talk about a very heavy content, but nobody expect me to talk about that heavy. So I was so worried.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: And how has the audience reception been? Because I saw, so when I looked at your website, you had done, I know you've done it in LA. Have you done the show? Only in LA, then?
[00:14:15] Speaker B: LA and New York. And Ohio.
[00:14:18] Speaker A: Okay. I lived in Ohio for five years and I have a lot of questions about that. So wait, what was the reception in Ohio? I went there after graduate school. Just, I'm from New York City and then I live here. But that was.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Beautiful.
Wow. So, okay, Ohio.
So I went to one of the most, like a progressive city, it's Cincinnati.
And they were still very welcoming, but I don't know if it's okay to say that, but very white dominant.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: That's true. Yeah.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: Yes. And some people didn't get that. Some people were just so shocked that, is this the true story? So I was like, oh, so some people don't get related to. So it's totally okay. But I was a little bit surprised because in New York and laden, to be honest, everybody was related.
Everybody told me that, oh, my gosh, I grew up with this. I grew up with that. So many people wrote me email and they messaged me, especially men. I was so shocked. And so that's why I didn't get that in Cincinnati much. So I was little bit shocked.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: Okay, so I have about a thousand questions because I get, I occasionally write about topics, so I'm a writer, I write books and occasionally I write about them and I do get emails and they're kind of heavy, actually. But do you, were you surprised at the, I don't call it outpouring. Were you surprised to get messages from people discussing how they related to it? Because I don't know if that's always my expectation when you put something out there that you're going to get that kind of message, but I guess when it's so personal, maybe. So were you surprised or.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: I was actually so relieved and yes, and I was so happy that I wasn't alone.
The reason why I do this show is like, yes, I feel like, related and I feel like I'm not the only one who struggle in life.
So I love to, yes, receive those emails.
[00:16:52] Speaker A: So did you think before. So I'm trying to think as a child. Okay, so let me say this, okay. As a child, I assumed my life was what everybody else's life was. At some point, maybe when I was like, I don't know, 1112 13, I clocked what was going on was not what everybody else was experiencing. But I didn't tell, I don't think I talked about it. I didn't talk about it in college maybe when I was in my twenties to like one or two people and I would only actually, I've not talked about it at all. So, you know, I mean, I have therapists and, you know, friends, but it's not a topic publicly. And so when you clock that your, your experience was not, I'm not going to say not normal because it happens to so many people, but perhaps not best for children.
You said you were younger and you spoke out. What did people say? Because there's always this perception, especially in the US, that they always tell kids, if you just tell somebody, I don't know what magic is supposed to happen, but, you know, if you tell your clergy, teacher, I don't know, a coach, whatever, there is lists of people, then there would be support. But I don't think that that's people's.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: General experience, not in Japan. So japanese system is very, very still progressing, which means it's so old and they don't have child protective service, like american way. They do have some kind of protective service, but neighbors never called the police, first of all. And a lot of times if I told my teacher, teacher wouldn't call the child Protective Service because it's not usual. It's not usual means like, I was not having a regular life, but to them, it's so abnormal that they just don't want us to talk about it.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: Right.
And then, but that's hard. So, I mean, that, that's hard.
But the other thing that you talked about, because there are two different things. You were having issues at home, but then you were having issues with like sexual assault, which is, you know, like an internal external violation. But between the two, did you feel that the second was something that you could talk about more? I mean, because we have this perception. Okay, so there's two things. Like, you know it well, sometimes family is, like, sacred or sacrosanct or whatever, but if somebody external to your family hurts you, then that is like, when people leap into action, as it were.
Did you get that? You didn't get that sense either.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: To be honest, I was the opposite. I thought that family issues are okay to talk about it outside, but the problem about my sexual assaults, all the abuse, I felt, it's a shame. Like, it's definitely shame, not ashamed of, but it's a definitely shameful thing that happened to me. I should never talk about it.
That's the reason why I never talked about that before.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: It can go either way, I think.
Heavy either way.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:33] Speaker A: And it's sad that there's no. I don't know. I don't know what I expect. There's not. I always say somebody's not going to come save you. There's no magic superhero that's going to come and save you from that kind of thing. So essentially, you have to save yourself. So what?
Leaving a country is hard. I mean, okay. A lot of people do it. Most humans don't. So what was the catalyst or what gave you the bravery, I think, to leave Japan and come to the US? Because I will say this, they're very. My experience with Japan. In Japan, I was actually just talking to a friend about it who's going in a couple of weeks, is. It's a very different culture than the US. Like, really, it is. I said to her that it's one of the most different cultures I think I've been in, and I've been to a lot of countries.
It's not as if you moved from, I don't know, Canada to the US or something that is more similar. So what possessed you to move to the US as opposed to, I don't know, Korea? I mean, there's, like, many countries, but what gave you the bravery? And it's a long. I mean, I phoned there. It's like, you know, that's a.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: That's a whole ocean, right. It is definitely a different country. And I unfortunately didn't like that country because, I mean, I still have huge love for the country, but as a citizen, I wasn't protected. Like, especially. Women are not protected in Japan. In Japan, if you get assaulted by sexual assault, it's almost normalized, like, generalized by people, or they were always attacked. Women are always attacked by saying, oh, because you are so skimpy outfit, or because you are not careful. So that's the reason why I wasn't protected either. And to this day, first of all, Japan has two different issues. I always talked about it. But first, Japan is the only country you are not allowed to keep maiden name when you marry.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: Oh, okay.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: I know, sir. This is crazy. Other countries, all the countries allowed to keep women's maiden name, but Japan is the only country not allowed. And another thing, if you get raped, and if you have to, if you choose to.
If you choose to get abortion, you need to have a rapist signature to abortion.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: That's a japanese, very heavy japanese problem.
[00:23:26] Speaker A: That's very. That's. That's. That's so much trauma. I mean, that's, like, re traumatizing. That's a lot.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: Yes, that's a lot. And Japanese are not kind to women.
[00:23:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I could see. So maybe it was not so much a brave act to leave, but a brave act to put yourself above, not above others, but you know what I mean? Like, it's.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: If family is sacrosanct and you leave. I mean, we talk about this all the time. There's so much pressure to forgive, to be with family, to all. To do all of these things to make everyone else feel better as opposed to doing what you need to do to make you feel better.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: Yes, I definitely did that. Yes.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: So you moved from Japan. Do you move to New York City or.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: Yes, New York City first.
I love New York City.
[00:24:20] Speaker A: Well, so do I, but I was born there, so I'm not. I am not unbiased.
So did you find.
I know you said you went. I mean, you came and were enrolled in dance school. Did you find New York to be more receptive to you as an artist.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: When you got there?
[00:24:39] Speaker A: Yes. Okay.
[00:24:40] Speaker B: Yes. Definitely, yes. I felt I am seen. I felt like I am more. Not important, but I am treated like a human being. I felt, yes.
[00:24:55] Speaker A: Did you, when you came originally, did you think that you would stay?
[00:25:01] Speaker B: Yes, definitely.
[00:25:02] Speaker A: Oh, okay.
People think I'll go to school and do this, and then I'll go back, and then I'll settle down, and then I'll do this. Now, that doesn't always happen, but people do, right? Often, you know, I'm gonna do this thing, and then I will, you know, then I will go back. So you knew you were gonna stay. Did you. Did you tell your family that you planned to stay? I mean, leaving is one thing, but staying isn't. Yeah. Is another.
[00:25:26] Speaker B: Yes. I didn't tell them because I. I couldn't tell them because they knew. They thought that I would come back home after two years. But, uh, I had no intention of going back home. I was planned to immigrate to the US, which they didn't know.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: Oh, okay.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:25:49] Speaker A: Did you eventually, you obviously had to tell them because they noticed you didn't come back.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:25:53] Speaker A: What was their response when you told them that you weren't coming back?
[00:25:58] Speaker B: They were so sad. They were so sad. And they were questioning why Te Ruko doesn't want to come back. But I couldn't tell them that because you guys are kidding each other and there's no space for me. I couldn't tell them until recently.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: I know, and I think that's one of the most amazing things in your show because, okay. Many people, I think, have, especially if you read online, have this sort of fantasy that they'll have a conversation with their parents and their parents will hear them. And unfortunately, far too often it doesn't happen. Parents blame, the children blame something outside of themselves. I'm not saying there aren't stressors in life, but that doesn't excuse the behavior. But in your show, you talked about talking to them and they were. I don't want to say receptive. That's not the right word. They.
Would you say they understood?
[00:26:59] Speaker B: My parents totally understood when I told them yes. And they said sorry, and they. We made amends. Yes.
[00:27:08] Speaker A: Were you surprised? Because that's. That is the most unusual. I mean, I'm gonna be honest. It's like the most unusual thing to happen if you read, like, forums about this. Most. That doesn't happen. I don't. I feel like 95% of the time, definitely.
[00:27:24] Speaker B: I thought I was. I was seeing a miracle. Definitely. Yes. But I also understood that my parents get older, so they are more understandable and they experience life more all the time. And I think they are more open and more mature about the problem.
But back then, they were not.
[00:27:54] Speaker A: Were they young parents?
[00:27:57] Speaker B: No, my parents are not young. I wish I could say that, but my parents are not young. I was an old child, but still they were immature.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: Sadly.
[00:28:12] Speaker A: Age and maturity are not always related. I was just wondering.
I, too, did not have young parents, but I have heard from other people with young parents. I mean, their parents were like, like 20 or something like that, that they're experience. I know somebody whose parents were like 17 and 20 or something, and that's a very different experience.
[00:28:33] Speaker B: Very young.
[00:28:34] Speaker A: I mean, my parents are like, almost 30, so that's not, that's not an excuse.
[00:28:37] Speaker B: Mine too. Yes, mine too.
[00:28:40] Speaker A: So do you go back often or often, yes.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: So we made amend, and now I go back to Japan twice a year.
[00:28:52] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:28:52] Speaker B: My parents are too old to come here because my father is not well. So they're still alive and dead together. But my father had eight times cancer, so, yes, he's very fragile. So instead of them coming here, I go back often. So twice a year.
[00:29:17] Speaker A: And do you find. Wow. So you go back often, and let me say this. Countries change. They all change. You leave and they change, and you come back and they are changed. It's with cities. I go to New York, and it has changed. But do you have you, are the changes such that you think that it's easier now for women in Japan, or.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: No, I definitely think it's easier. It's more international. And those rules that I mentioned earlier was still the same. But I feel Japan is growing, too, and they might gonna change anytime soon. Yes. So I feel more hopeful about Japan.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: Okay. So were you. How can I say this? I'm so surprised. I cannot tell you the level of surprise I had during the show when you talked about making amends with your parents, because it's just out of the ordinary. It is just extraordinary. Did you. Were you surprised? Okay. Culture notwithstanding, were you surprised that they stayed together?
[00:30:28] Speaker B: Yes.
Well, no.
[00:30:32] Speaker A: Dysfunction is a lot. I mean, when you're talking about your father buying, like, a new television every week, that's a lot. So, I mean, that's a lot to live with.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. I can't believe my parents stood together and I asked them, and they told me at first, no, no, because we have kids and we. We cannot get divorced, blah, blah, blah. And I got so angry because it's not about kids. You never cared about kids. But why you guys are still together. And I. And I got the most impressive answer, which was, they love each other still.
I can't believe they said that.
[00:31:12] Speaker A: I'm sorry. That's a lot. That's so.
[00:31:14] Speaker B: Yeah, but that's.
[00:31:17] Speaker A: That's. Oh, wow. That's. That's a lot. I mean, I. Yes, I feel like there would be, like. I feel like that's a thousand years of therapy, because that's like. Is that codependency? Like, what is that? Because it sounds so dysfunctional. Like, alcoholism is one thing and then violence is another. But that's two competing pathologies. That's a lot.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: Very chaotic. So are their lives then now, like, less chaotic. So when you visit them, there's not to say no chaos, but just less, a lot less chaos.
[00:31:51] Speaker B: Less. A lot less chaos. Like, my mother quit drinking.
[00:31:57] Speaker A: I know you said that. I found that shocking as well.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: Yes.
So she's now much better. And my father is 82 right now, but still a little bit having a temper. But long ago, my mother was taking care of him when he was in the hospital, and he had lung cancer, so he had a big scar on his back. But then he's still trying to hit my mother.
And my mother hit my father's scar, and she said to him, I could kill you if I wanted.
Then that's the time when my father realized that he's no longer strong, and he stopped fighting with my mother.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: I can't. So have you.
I mean, I hear you, and I understand my mind.
When I was watching your show, my mind had difficulty containing all of these things because it's so.
It's a lot. It's a lot.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:13] Speaker A: Did you where I, for one time, silenced? And I usually have so many questions.
[00:33:19] Speaker B: What.
[00:33:20] Speaker A: Let me say this. How is it that you are able to integrate this background and still remain, as my therapist would say, resilient? Because you're still creating. You're still living life to the fullest in a lot of ways. Despite this or not? Because. Or with this?
[00:33:42] Speaker B: I want to say despite. Despite.
Yes, because it's definitely damaging my life. And my therapist always told me that, Tedoko, you're very resilient. And I still have traumatized experience in my head, so sometimes that conquers me. But I have a great therapist and great EMDR, which is like a eyeball movement therapy for traumatized people, PTSD people. Yes. And I have a great psychiatrist, and they all help me survive. So, yeah, I find.
Yes. American thing to have a therapist, psychiatrist and all. Yes, true.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: But for the people I know, who with traumatic backgrounds, it is what is necessary, because the alternative is not great.
Did you ever worry? So my. Let me say this. My experience with people, okay, I'm an only child, so I'm the only one.
[00:34:54] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:34:55] Speaker A: But my experience is that when there are families like this, some children survive and some children do not. So they end up either, um, with an alcohol drug, some kind of problem like that. And that'll take you down eventually, quickly or slowly, depending, or in the alternative, they can't. They don't survive it. Like, I mean, there's suicide in there, things like that. And I know you talked about that in your show. Did you worry. Well, let me ask you first. Did you worry about substance abuse problems? Because I remember growing up, I don't drink. I mean, I don't have a glass of wine. I'm not like a person doesn't drink at all, but I don't drink. I've never been drunk. And people always ask me about it, and all I could think of is, I can't go down that road. It's so scary to imagine being in, being down that path. Did you worry about the.
You're resilient, you're survived, you're thriving. Amazing show. But did you, do you worry or did you worry about all of the ways it could not have gone well?
[00:36:00] Speaker B: Well, I have a substance abuse and which is not alcoholic or drug use. My substance abuse was self harm, and so, yes, and I am still battling self harm, which is eating disorder.
So I grew up developing eating disorder since I was eight, and I've been still buttering. And last year, for a year, I was in the hospital treating my eating disorder. So it's definitely different kind of substance abuse, but eating disorder was my coping mechanism to survive that, survived that at that time, and I still have it. That's why I, right now it's much better than before because I am no longer bulimic or anorexic, but I still have eating disorder to restrict my diet and all to cope my stress and traumatized experience. So in a short answer is yes. I still have an long answer would be no, because I've been treated very well.
[00:37:34] Speaker A: Do you think, though, I'm going to ask you this seriously, because I wonder about this. Do you worry that performing makes it more difficult to treat a disorder? Because I never can decide if people who having users gravitate toward performance or if it's, and I have friends with this experience, if it's your choreographer saying you could fit into the costume better, or somebody was just saying the other day they went to, I was thinking about this, they went to a fitting and the person said, don't gain weight. And what they really mean is lose weight. But they wouldn't. Yeah, I know, but they wouldn't. And so I do wonder about that. Battling that in an industry that is unforgiving about appearance.
[00:38:27] Speaker B: Right?
So luckily, I'm in the comedy field, and in comedy, age or weight doesn't matter.
That's why I'm so happy about it. And my weights, I'm battering right now. But luckily, America is very more aware about the shaming and body positive images and stuff, so I think I'm less traumatized. But in Japan, I would be definitely traumatized because everybody wanted to lose weight. Everybody shame overweight people. And so Japan is a lot to work about. So it's not the only thing that Japan is not good about women, but also shaming body sizes also. And I'm talking bad about Japan right now, but yeah. So compared to that, I feel I'm in heaven.
[00:39:35] Speaker A: Okay, so let me ask you about comedy.
I enjoy comedy, but what made you decide to do that as opposed to, well, continuing dancing. And dancing is, for many people I know dancing has an end because your body is eventually is like, this is a lot.
As opposed to dancing or exclusively acting. What made you choose comedy?
[00:40:00] Speaker B: So comedy I chose after I got, I got discharged from the suicide war because the doctor told me, taruko, do the comedy.
I never choose to do comedy when I came to LA because I thought that, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna do acting. I'm gonna be serious actor. I'm gonna cry a lot. And bravo.
Yeah. Every time when I cry on set, everybody start laughing because my face doesn't look, like, serious. That's actually funny. So I was like, always like, maybe I'm a comedic person, but I don't know why. But then when the doctor told me, Teruko, your stress level is so high, but when you see comedy stuff or any like, beautiful autistic stuff, your stress level down.
So they said they researched my body using, using virtual reality set and they show me a lot of images and comedy or art always stress level down. So they said that, ted, do the comedy because that's your goal. That's what the doctor told me. Yes.
[00:41:24] Speaker A: So what did you do? I mean, that's a, that's, that's so interesting because most people. Okay. That is not most people's story. So what was your first, what was your first step?
[00:41:36] Speaker B: First step was to go to UCB. Upright citizens. Very.
[00:41:41] Speaker A: Okay, so I have to ask because I have a lot of friends who've done. What made you choose UCB versus, say, the ground links?
[00:41:49] Speaker B: So groundings before. Before I went to groundings and I, I, like, I went there only like a brief time and I didn't get it.
Yeah. I wasn't, I wasn't old enough to understand groundings back then, so I didn't go. And then I chose UCB because UCB was closer and yes to LA and I was like, maybe UCB is better. So I went there and that was right because UCB is more simple to teach acting and grounding is more character oriented. That's true.
[00:42:33] Speaker A: It's very Saturday Night Live, you know what I mean? Just like creating character and then the improv. Yes. That's true. That's true. I never thought about it.
[00:42:41] Speaker B: Yeah. That's why I was like, no, choosing UCB is better for me. So that's why I chose. Yeah.
[00:42:47] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. That's, that's the first time anybody's giving me that answer. So how, that's so interesting. How did you find, are you still at the UCB?
[00:42:59] Speaker B: Yes, I'm still at the UCB. I perform every week Herald night. Like improv comedy. Yes. And I also host cage match with my dog.
[00:43:11] Speaker A: Oh, my God. That's amazing.
Can you explain? Because I, this is like, there's, I feel this is like an inside LA conversation. It's like when I was talking to somebody, like, I met the Uncle Joe show and they're like, everybody knows what it is. So can you explain what the cage match is?
[00:43:28] Speaker B: So, cage match. So my dog Titi is gonna look for all the improv, like, improv, long form improvisers in the whole world, and she choose two teams together and fight. And audience is gonna vote which team wins. And the winner will come back next week to fight another team, and the losers will be eaten by Tiki.
[00:43:57] Speaker A: So the weekly. So that's weekly. That's a lot. I mean, so it keeps you. I think it must keep you very sharp then.
[00:44:06] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, I'm so sorry. That's a bye week. I'm so sorry. That was bye weekend. But we did that up and get ready for the show every week. That's why I said every week.
[00:44:19] Speaker A: And so having, I don't say that having comedy is a suggestion for you. How have you enjoyed it?
[00:44:30] Speaker B: I love it. I didn't know I was born for comedy.
Yes. Comedy makes me feel.
Be myself.
[00:44:41] Speaker A: That's amazing. That's. Yeah, it makes it. So did you, so let me ask you this then. Do you see the show that I saw, do you see the made in America show as comedy, tragedy, just. Or what do you see it as? I never thought about that. Yeah.
[00:44:58] Speaker B: So I, I was told this. This show is, in one sentence, Teluko and Titi's triumph over tragedy.
[00:45:11] Speaker A: Okay, there you go. Yeah, yeah.
[00:45:16] Speaker B: Tragedy. Yes. I would say tragedy, but somehow in New York I was received. This is comedy.
This show was comedy. They said yes.
[00:45:27] Speaker A: So.
Oh, my God. I have. Yeah. I mean, okay, what?
This UCB is a whole thing. Do you. Okay, so improv is so different. It's not like it's stand up or something else. Do you generally include, is your comedy always current? So is it just what's like in front of you right now, or do you still draw on some of the other elements?
[00:45:56] Speaker B: I think it's current, because anything I can make fun of, but anything I see, I think I can make it in comedy.
[00:46:09] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:46:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:46:11] Speaker A: And so let me go. Going back to your show, how many years did it take you to develop the show?
[00:46:18] Speaker B: Six months.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: Oh my God. Wait. Yeah, I'm sorry, most, I take this. Okay, my question had a lot of assumptions in it because everybody I know has done a show. They're like, I've been toiling over it for five years and putting together here and there and. Wow. So what does it take to develop a show? Because it seems okay, I've seen a number of them in life.
It seems hard. Like, it seems hard to develop a coherent narrative and tell a story and act it out or in case in dancing and all these other elements into like an hour, well, more or less an hour long show. Did you find in your short six month period, did you find it hard to develop or did you always have like some of these elements in the back of your mind and you're putting them together?
[00:47:10] Speaker B: Yes, I always had back in my head, because it's my life and it's all true story, so there's nothing to make up some story or anything. It's always there. So I started taking writing class with my teacher, Mister John Flynn. He is a brilliant teacher, writing teacher, and I always wrote small, small essay about my life. And in six months and I realized that, oh, I wanted to make a show about this. And then he said, he put them together and helped me to do in 1 hour show. And we finished writing two weeks before Hollywood french festival.
[00:48:04] Speaker A: Wow. Okay.
[00:48:06] Speaker B: Yes.
That was so short time. Yeah.
[00:48:11] Speaker A: Did you, were you, I don't know, scared, nervous? I can't think of the right word. The first time you did it, I.
[00:48:18] Speaker B: Was a little bit scared because I didn't know if people would understand me or they just don't like me or in general. This is like a long form of stand up.
Yes. So I was wondering if they don't like it or not, but then at the same time, I'm a little bit punk about it. I would like, like, I don't care, even though they don't like me anyway. This is me, so I'm gonna do it anyway.
[00:48:49] Speaker A: I think that's, to be honest, I think that's the only way to do some art. So, I mean, I know a lot of artists, and at some point, I think almost every artist I know has decided to hell with what people think I'm just gonna do this.
Not tv writers.
They're doing their own thing. But most other artists I know have had that point. What do you think got you to the point where you're just willing to put it out there? So talking about your life to therapists, psychiatrists, friends, like other family is one thing. Public performance is an entirely different thing you have to let go of. I would guess shame, judgment. Like, there's a lot to let go of. Did you find it, I don't know, freeing or.
I don't know if it feels like it'd be putting you back in prison. Yeah.
[00:49:46] Speaker B: So one thing I am very proud of myself is to be brave.
Yes. And I'm not beautiful. I'm not this. I'm not that. But one thing I really know about myself is that I'm very brave. And I think I've never seen any brave man in life. Like, more braver men in life. Like, I'm very brave about it. So that's why I. I chose to do the show, because if the show. Doing the show is brave, okay, I want to be brave, so I'm gonna do the show. So I pushed myself to the edge.
Yeah.
[00:50:28] Speaker A: What was the. I haven't been to Hollywood fringe in years. What was the reception like at the fringe?
[00:50:33] Speaker B: Accurate.
[00:50:35] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:50:36] Speaker B: Yes. Very, very well accepted. Yeah.
[00:50:40] Speaker A: Were you at all surprised?
[00:50:42] Speaker B: I was so surprised. Yeah.
[00:50:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
Okay, so did you. Before you did the fringe, did you do it at all in front of, like, a smaller group of people? Like, people from UCB or some. How can I say this?
[00:50:57] Speaker B: No.
[00:50:57] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. Some friendly group is what I was gonna say.
People do performances in front of, like, a few very receptive, friendly people just to, like, tie it out the one time before they do a public performance.
[00:51:13] Speaker B: Yes. I didn't. I went to use. I went to Hollywood Fringe festival itself. Yes.
[00:51:21] Speaker A: Okay.
That's brave. That is really brave to just.
[00:51:26] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:51:27] Speaker A: To just do that and then a whole hour too. Okay. Many questions. What?
[00:51:35] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:51:37] Speaker A: I have. I am speechless, because that was really brave thing to do. I'll ask, what made you decide to incorporate your dog? Because we do talk about. We humans talk about how animals can provide. I don't know, but, like, they provide a very comforting presence in people's lives and can be therapeutic. What made you decide to include your dog in person as opposed to just in thought? I mean, your dog is there, like, I want to be clear. There is a lot of dog.
She's not just talking about the dog. There is an actual dog?
[00:52:13] Speaker B: Real dog. Yes. And she's waiting on the side of the show all the time. And. Yeah, so my dog was assigned by psychiatrist, and that dog, my name. My dog name is Titi. Titi is my service animal. So Titi has to be with me all the time, and she gives me calm, like, she gives me calming energy from the stage, and she is always there for me. So I was like, why don't I put Titi on this? Because we need Titi anyway. I need Titi by my side anyway, so. And then when Titi was up, she was so calm and she didn't care about the big audience, so she actually loves attention.
So that's the reason why we chose to put TT in the show.
Yeah.
[00:53:14] Speaker A: So did you. So after Hollywood fringe, let me say it's before Hollywood fringe. What was your plan if the show was well received?
[00:53:26] Speaker B: To go to New York.
[00:53:28] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:53:29] Speaker B: Yes. And actually the dream came true and we got offered to do the show at Soho Playhouse in New York, and we did off Broadway show there.
[00:53:43] Speaker A: And how.
When did you do that? I'm trying to think time wise.
[00:53:47] Speaker B: Yes. So 2022, I did the Hollywood Fringe Festival, like, around June. And that year, same year, November, we started doing the off Broadway show in New York same year.
[00:54:04] Speaker A: So in this. I don't know. Well, I know people do this different ways. How often do you perform the show?
[00:54:13] Speaker B: Currently I'm trying to do once or twice a month.
And like you kindly mentioned earlier, I wanted to bring my show to Edinburgh this next. Next year.
So I'm keep on doing the show now, I think.
[00:54:32] Speaker A: So Edinburgh is an interesting.
It's interesting for me because it's a lot of storytelling shows. I think that in the US we have a lot of shows, but many of them are not storytelling. We still have a lot of jokey shows, so there are comedians who do longer form stories. We're talking about ten minute, like, three or 410 minutes stories within their set. And I think that Edinburgh has more. I mean, there's still punchy shows, but there are more long form shows. And my belief is that.
I'm trying to think, I spent a lot of time in Europe, but that european audiences are more, or at least the UK, let me say this, are more receptive to long stories.
[00:55:16] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:55:17] Speaker A: As a way that they have done theater for some time. Do you.
I have no idea. What do you think the reception would be like in the UK? Like, I can't. I'm trying to think what. I think it would be really well received, but it's because the fringe festival, people's expectation is that they're going to walk into anything. You know what I mean?
[00:55:40] Speaker B: Yes.
I. To be honest, I didn't go to Edinburgh for two years because of that reason. I didn't know what they would think about because I.
So UK is like, more like Japan when it comes to country wise. So it's more shame or, like, think about others, not yours.
Yes. So I'm not sure, to be honest, how they gonna receive my show, but it's worse. Okay. So the reason why I decided to go to Edinburgh next year is I'm a minority. I am a woman of color, and old women of color don't go to Edinburgh much. I realized, yes, a lot of times, money is the problem because we don't get funded money or we don't have, like, we don't thank father, and I don't like that. So for other minority people, I decided to go because I. If I can do it, everybody can do it.
Yeah.
[00:57:03] Speaker A: So the difficulties with people I know in Edinburgh is that you do. It's a several weeks. Many people funded. It is a lot to mount. You have to, like.
I don't call it like a bringer show, but basically you have to gin up your own audience and do a lot of marketing and advertising, publicity.
[00:57:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:57:23] Speaker A: So in that sense, there, it is not an obstacle free, you know, path.
You are right. It's. You're right about the people. Yeah. Because. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. And I'd not thought of why. I don't do that kind of work. And the people I know. Yeah. I don't. Now that you say it, yes. I'm gonna have to. I'm really gonna have to think about it. I'm thinking about people I know who went this year, and that's their. All white and. Yeah. And funded through many different ways, but. Yeah. Okay.
[00:57:55] Speaker B: Yeah, there. I wanna go.
[00:57:58] Speaker A: I think you should. I mean, I really do.
[00:58:00] Speaker B: Thank you so much.
[00:58:02] Speaker A: Do you think so let me say this. Having done this show, do you think there are other stories? Not other stories, other ways you would want to tell, like, aspects of your story in, like, developing other shows? So there are a couple I know who have one woman shows, and, like, well, it depends on how they do it, but, like, the first show will be, like, this aspect of their life, and then the next show will be, like, a different aspect or a different take on their life. Do you anticipate doing something like that?
[00:58:37] Speaker B: I'm not sure if this is the right answer, but I wanted to say sell my show to HBO.
Yes. And develop exact, the same show or movie or tv show in any platform I wanted to create.
[00:58:55] Speaker A: I think that's fair. I mean, I do.
[00:58:57] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:58:58] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think that's absolutely fair. And that's its own. I don't call it job, but it is its own job. I mean, adaptation, selling, development, all of that. That's a whole, like, it's a whole thing.
[00:59:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:10] Speaker A: And it could take a lot of time. Do you.
That is so interesting. It's. How can I say this? I live in La long enough that it all feels very possible.
[00:59:22] Speaker B: Oh, thank you so much.
[00:59:24] Speaker A: Very, very possible. What do you. Okay, if you. If you were on a platform that biggest. How do you think you would manage the kind of messages you receive? So if you're receiving messages from doing, like, in, you know, live in person events, do you know that would only be exponential, like, it only be much bigger.
Millions of people, you know, can. Who can watch it from their home. Do you have, like, a plan in place to manage that kind of.
I don't even know. I don't want to call it attention. I don't know how to describe it, but to manage that.
[01:00:05] Speaker B: Yes.
To be honest, no, because I don't know what's gonna happen. But I would. I would love to connect as many people as possible because I really felt not alone.
And I love that feeling, because if we can relate, we can solve the problem. We can definitely think about it, because if nobody is talking about those issues, it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. Like, it's not gonna be cure. It's not gonna. Yes. Have a solvent, any solution. So I wanted to let as many people see my show and to think about.
Yes, that's.
[01:00:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's heavy. I'm trying to think. I'm like, could you do this Netflix thing? I have a lot of thought on that, but that's there.
Do you.
So let me ask this then. What's next? Like what I mean, so you could sell the show and that's fine. Do you want to do more acting or more comedy or more long form projects or what other things you think you might want to do?
[01:01:26] Speaker B: I want to keep on doing comedy for sure. For life, definitely. And I wanted to do more long form of project.
[01:01:39] Speaker A: Did you let me do this? And it's because I know as a writer, I'm thinking about it. Did you enjoy the writing part more or the performance part?
[01:01:47] Speaker B: More writing part. I love writing. Yes. Writing was more fun and performing was painful because performing is so hard. So I. I loved writing part.
[01:02:02] Speaker A: So what is the hard part about performing? Yeah, let me just ask, what is the hard part about performing? Because I have some thoughts about what.
[01:02:09] Speaker B: It might be, but, uh, it's just a technical thing, like the. The timing and movements and delivery and, uh, the rhythm of the show. It's very difficult. I. I practice, like, every day. Like, I practice doing the show every day in order to perform my show. So it's a lot to prep. Prepare. Yes.
[01:02:40] Speaker A: I mean, I will say this, like, incorporating dancing is.
[01:02:44] Speaker B: That's.
[01:02:46] Speaker A: That's a lot. I mean, it's a lot. It's. It is a lot. It is a lot. You did it, what, amazingly well. So, I mean, I don't want to say that, but it is a lot. Now that I think about it, I don't know. I don't think I could do it. So, in terms of the writing. So let me say this in.
Okay, the crownlings is a little different. The thing we're talking about, do you do a lot of writing for UCB? Do you like prep? Well, to the extent that you can ahead of time, like things that you would like to touch on, or do you just do it all off the cuff?
[01:03:24] Speaker B: Well, I write anytime something funny comes up, so I write a lot. Yes.
[01:03:31] Speaker A: And you? That's. Well, I think it's a good idea. I know not everybody who does comedy does that, so I'm not, you know, gonna say that, but do you think it helps you solidify your ideas? I think is what I wanted to say.
[01:03:44] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. Yes, I definitely think so. And also, I. It's a relief for me. It's almost like a therapy to me to write. Yes, I feel more calm and grounded by writing.
[01:04:01] Speaker A: So everyone says that, like, so, I mean, I write as a job, so that's different. But I know that there has been a big push for, like, journaling and all of these things to help people express themselves. And, yes, I want to say, like, organize your mind around the things that you have to deal with or manage.
Okay. So my time with you is almost up. So I do want to ask you, how do you like living in LA versus living in New York?
[01:04:28] Speaker B: Oh, definitely, definitely, definitely.
Living in LA, we have more privacy and we have more room.
[01:04:36] Speaker A: That's true.
[01:04:37] Speaker B: But in New York.
But in New York is. Yeah. So packed and so crowded. But I love New York still, because it's so romantic and everybody is the star or hero of your own life in New York. That's what I felt so. That's a very attractive part of New York.
New York is very, what I say, lovely in that aspect. But I still love LA more because, yes, La saved me and LA is more chill down, like laid back and everybody is more, yes, more easygoing. And I love LA because LA really, really gave me opportunity to do the show.
[01:05:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I will say this. The one thing I found different, and I actually rarely say this, but in New York you would go to like, say, parties or gatherings and people would ask you what you do. And I have found that in LA that is not the first question that people ask you or they ask you what you do and they mean artistically and they don't necessarily mean as a job. And I always thought that that was so it's a much different approach to finding out who people are.
[01:06:06] Speaker B: Yes, that's more, that's more chill. Yeah, I love that.
[01:06:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I do. That's one thing I do like about it. I still might like New York better, but I don't know, I'm like you. I'm at the point now where I think I've been here longer than I was anywhere else. And so that's interesting. I don't know if I ever expected to be here. I was like, I want the things I want. I want better weather and more space. And like, literally that's the only thought I had. And, you know, 20 something years later, I'm still here.
So I guess I'm sort of committed.
So I want to thank you for taking the time to talk to me and I really, really enjoyed your show and I'll share the links with people who live here. Not everybody lives here, obviously.
[01:06:55] Speaker B: Yes, but I really thank you so much.
[01:06:58] Speaker A: I really enjoyed speaking with you and I really want to thank you for not only doing the show, being brave enough to talk about all of those issues, but also taking the time to speak with me today.
[01:07:08] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. And we means tt and I are so happy to be on the show.
[01:07:15] Speaker A: Thank you again.
[01:07:17] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:07:21] Speaker C: This has been a time to thrill with me. Your host, author, Amy Austin. If you enjoyed todays episode, ill help you share rate and leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. It will help others find and enjoy my conversations with brilliant women creators. Also, please hit the subscribe button on your podcast app. In addition to hosting this podcast, im the author of the Nicole Long series of legal thrillers. The first four books in the Nicole Long series are now live. You can download, outcry, witness, major crimes without consent and the murders began. To your e reader right now I'm also the author of the Casey Court series of legal thrillers. These titles are available wherever books are sold, your local library, and also an audiobook.
My next book, his last mistress, is available for pre order wherever you get your books. You can also follow me on Instagram and Facebook at legal thriller author. You can find me on TikTok at social thriller author. You can also find this podcast on Facebook at the time to thrill. Thanks for listening and I'll be back with you soon with more great conversations.
