Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Hi and welcome to the Politics of Justice. It's me, Amy Austin.
[00:00:10] So are you ready for book two in the Casey Court series? It is currently titled Ransom.
[00:00:18] So I'm going to do a little introduction before I get into the book because I had to do some research.
[00:00:26] So this book, Ransomed, was previously called Under Color of Law, and it is another ripped from the headlines book in the sense that it was inspired by a case, the United States actually, against David W. Lanier, who in the 90s, 80s and 90s was a judge in the state of Tennessee.
[00:00:53] So I actually had to do some research to find out what happened, because I wrote the book in 2010, 2012, and I guess I had not followed up on the case at the time because it was sort of in my brain and I could write the book without it. I have enough imagination for that.
[00:01:14] So let's discuss. So I just looked it up. So David Lanier is a dead.
[00:01:23] He was born in 1931. He died in 2021 in prison. Let's start with that.
[00:01:31] Let's start with that.
[00:01:32] And if he was 31, 20, 21, he was in this, obviously, 80, 80 or 81. 80. Well, 80 or 79, I guess, at the time he died.
[00:01:43] Okay. So David Lanier is from a.
[00:01:48] They used to call him Cleveland, a judicial family, but a powerful family in the state of Tennessee. His father was well known in government, had a lot of power.
[00:02:01] And before David's father's death, the FBI was investigating him for corruption and various things. He died.
[00:02:12] And when he died, he had two sons who also came into power, a son named James.
[00:02:18] Oh Lanier, who. I don't know what happened to him, but I know he died. And David W. Lanier, I don't. I'm not gonna. I don't actually know the setup of the Tennessee courts, but a lot of court. A lot of states have various names for various courts that do various things.
[00:02:38] In this case, they were in Tennessee, a place called Dyersburg. It's. And then there were two counties involved, Lake, and I forget the name of the other county.
[00:02:47] And David Libby. Lanier originally came to the Chancery court and then later to juvenile court.
[00:02:56] His nickname. This is like a women's whisper network type nickname. Not like. Not his name wasn't like Joe.
[00:03:04] His nickname was the Grabber.
[00:03:07] He was rumored to be a grabby guy who grabbed women who knows where. We know where other people like to grab them and engage in inappropriate behavior.
[00:03:22] But because his father was powerful, because he. His brother was powerful, because he was from A powerful family.
[00:03:30] No one dared cross him. So there's these stories out there, like a number of newspaper articles on this of women who either came, came before him and felt intimidated by him. One worked for him and was sexually harassed by him, she says. And so there's a lot of, like. There's, like, a cloud around this guy.
[00:03:54] And one woman, he had a job. He.
[00:04:03] When she pushed back.
[00:04:07] Well, people who pushed back were worried that their lives were going to be hell in some cases.
[00:04:13] Like, there's one woman who suggests that she really, like, pushed back against him. And then he was like, okay, I'll get you a job. But the job he got her was for a local doctor, and he suggested to the doctor that she was sexually available, and then that doctor, like, subsequently, like, sexually harassed her. So there's all of this, like, treating women poorly. So the two things that stood out for me. Well, no, there's many things that stood out. Let's start with behavior in Tennessee. The two things that stood out for me was one, like, he grabbed a woman, like, while on the bench. But, like, if you've ever been in court, like, the bench is high, and it obscures a lot.
[00:04:55] I always thought for the judge's privacy, but it obscures a lot. And people often stand behind them or next to them and, you know, I don't know, like, judges. I mean, like, I've seen them, like, take drinks with water and do various things.
[00:05:09] But there are accusations that he grabbed people, like, while in court, and then came the litigants. And one. One woman alleges that when she pushed back against the sexual harassment, he threatened to take her kids away, and therefore she felt that she had to do what he wanted.
[00:05:29] Okay, so there weren't a lot of people who. A lot of women who were willing to come forward and accuse him because they would like to keep their livelihood, their jobs, not be passed around, keep their kids.
[00:05:42] And they do what women have done for a time in a memorial, as you'll hear about in any number of these, like Me Too cases.
[00:05:49] They lived with it and kept it moving and tried to make it as small as possible in their life and tried to stay out of the wrath of people that could ruin their lives, their relationships, relationships, their careers, or take their children away. I mean, this is. It's. It's a. It's. It's a problem.
[00:06:08] All that said, because the FBI had been, like, swirling around as that they heard about these cases and prosecuted him.
[00:06:19] He was prosecuted in federal court under something called, like, the Color of Law. So people have the right, I guess or not good thing about this to be free from harassment in that kind of context. And so he was convicted and he went to. He went to federal prison. He appealed. So at the time of this case, in like 96, 97, 98 and so on, I lived in Ohio and in.
[00:06:53] Obviously there's a state system. I'm going to talk to you about the federal system. There are circuit courts and different circuits cover different geographical areas. Like for instance, now I'm in the 9th Circuit, which covers the swath up and down the west coast and Hawaii and maybe Alaska too. I have to think about that.
[00:07:09] The 6th Circuit at the time was Ohio, Tennessee, Michigan, Ohio, Tennessee, Michigan.
[00:07:20] I don't remember the fourth state. Not Wisconsin or Pennsylvania. There's a fourth state. There are four states in the 6th Circuit.
[00:07:25] Things I should Google before I record.
[00:07:30] But the 6th Circuit held all their cases in Tennessee.
[00:07:34] And at the time I lived in Ohio. My ex was a clerk for a senior judge in the sixth Circuit Court of Appeals.
[00:07:46] So I then, at the time, I sort of followed it because.
[00:07:50] I followed it because it was the thing we talked about. And what was interesting about this case is that they, I believe, affirmed his conviction, but then he appealed. And you can appeal to like an en banc, which means in theory, the entire circuit heard, hears that. But en banc usually is like, let's say there's like, I don't know, 20 appeals. So just 10 will be on the en banc and it's more or less randomized.
[00:08:18] And he appealed to the 6th Circuit en banc and they reversed his conviction.
[00:08:25] And what really sort of the dissenters said this and this, like, this is the thing that really like shocked me. I don't know if it was shockable at this time.
[00:08:39] What interested me about this case is because people were. Women were afraid to go against him in state court. And there's like, I don't think anybody was not saying that it would be really impossible to convict him in state court or because like his family was in like the prosecutor's office as well, that like, they would not have prosecuted him. Like, you know, would his brother have prosecuted him or whatever.
[00:09:03] With people who's like people who work for his family prosecuted him, probably not likely.
[00:09:09] So this federal court case was the only way to get him. And by, with this reversal, the 6th Circuit was suggesting that there was no way to punish somebody for his conduct. I don't think there was any question about his conduct. I don't think there was Any question about the fact that his family, other people said this. I don't know enough about Tennessee. Own Tennessee.
[00:09:36] And so then what kind of recourse do they have?
[00:09:42] So there's a thing. Actually, I've had clients like this. There's a thing. When you win an appeal, sometimes you can ask to be released pending, like, further action. Because if you win an appeal and your conviction is reversed, then in theory, you can be free while it's determined whether or not that reversal stands. Yada, yada, yada.
[00:10:04] So he was freed upon pending this appeal, and I believe the United States, this would be the Justice Department, appealed to the Supreme Court.
[00:10:16] So he was out and about pending appeal.
[00:10:20] And believe it or not, because given the Supreme Court that we have today, you have to imagine the supreme court of, like, 1997, 1998, reversed the appeal on the theory that you just can't have, like, no way to convict people of crimes. And whether or not that's good or not, I don't know.
[00:10:39] So upon the reversal of the appeal, there's a mandate that he then has to surrender himself. It's like, you know, by August 22nd of, like, 1990, whatever, eight or something, you have to surrender yourself to the Justice Department, the FBI, the Marsh, US Marshal, whomever.
[00:10:55] So Lanier did not. The two years he had spent in prison, he, like, more or less said that was hell. He was in prison with bad people.
[00:11:05] Bad people. He was not bad people. Like, those were bad people. And he. Going back would be a death sentence. And if the. If he went back, the judges would have blood on their hands. I mean, he did say all this because, you know, and so he. Okay, honestly, he fled to Mexico. Okay? They couldn't find him. He fled to Mexico. They only found him when he went to go pick up his fake identity documents that he was going to then take to travel to who knows where. I don't know what his plan was. He didn't want to go back to prison. So I had to look this up, because I was like, did he eventually go back? So he did go back to prison and died in prison. But after he went back to prison, there were a series of appeals where he felt that he.
[00:11:51] He shouldn't be prosecuted. And I think this is one of those, like, technicality sort of issues.
[00:11:58] I believe that who knows who he would have won his appeals. I mean, the Supreme Court reversed, but he could have, like, he could have appealed. He was pro se for a lot of the time. Then he was represented by the federal public defender. He had all the avenues.
[00:12:12] The only reason, not the only reason, the main reason that he went back to prison and lost his appeals is because he was a fugitive.
[00:12:20] As a fugitive, they. The court determined that if he did not turn himself in by X, y or date, then all of his appeals would be dismissed with prejudice, which means that he could not bring in them again.
[00:12:31] Obviously, he was found. He did appeal again, and they were dismissed. And so then, you know, he's in prison, the jail is shut. And he was in prison for 20, 18, 20 years, and then died.
[00:12:49] By the way, in the obituary online, nothing about this, nothing about him dying in prison. I was like, googling. I was like, if he didn't get out of prison, you know, then he would die in prison.
[00:12:59] He died in like, like, prison medical facilities. Ancillary. Ancillary medical facilities for prisons where people who were sick and dying die. I don't know what he died of. It did not say. And I didn't Google this hard for this.
[00:13:12] But what really struck me about this case and has me thinking about it now, although I was planning to do book two after book one, is that it appears. It appears.
[00:13:27] My belief is that there are certain people who are above the law for. Pick your reason, Pick your reason.
[00:13:36] But when it comes to the abuse of women, there seems to be, like, a lot of people throw up their hands and they have, like, no way of prosecuting people who we know are like, pedophiles or trafficking people or are using their position to abuse women. And suddenly we have no idea how to prosecute people. Oh, my gosh, what are we gonna do? So that's sort of like where this case lives in my head.
[00:14:04] So about the book. So I started, okay, I wrote book one, and I was running around trying to get an agent, and, like, I got an agent, but trying to get, I guess, get it published. And it was a no go. And then in the meantime, I published a couple of romances. And I was like, okay, if I can get romances traditionally published, I must be a good enough writer. Let's try to get this book published again. No go.
[00:14:28] So I think in that time now, if I missed. When I wrote in 2012, I don't think I'd yet published. I'd yet independently published the first book.
[00:14:41] But I had learned a little or a lot about the publishing industry in the meanwhile and knew that my case would be stronger for publishing the first Casey Court book if I was writing a second and could sell it as a series. Like, I have, like, book one. I'VE introduced this character. She has serious appeal or serious potential or whatever you would say in a proposal.
[00:15:05] And therefore you should buy this book. That didn't happen. Nobody bought the book. I mean, the publisher bought the book. So when I independently published book one, I already had written maybe half of book two. I have to look at the dates. I actually don't know that.
[00:15:23] But let me say this. I had started book two, and I was like, serious potential. Like, this is gonna, like, launch my career or whatever. I'm gonna be the next Michael Connolly, James Patterson, Elizabeth George series, Karen Slaughter, whatever, you name it. This is like, was my plan.
[00:15:40] And I was like, okay, I'm gonna write this book. Then I got pregnant and I was like, okay, while I'm pregnant, but before I have a baby and my time is swallowed up by that, I'm going to finish this book.
[00:15:59] Let me tell you, that did not happen. I think it was all kind of vague.
[00:16:04] I think I got obsessed with crown molding, paint colors, cribs, and random stuff that, like, you wonder, like. I think it's like this, like, nesting instinct that women get when they're pregnant.
[00:16:19] That's what I was doing in the time I was pregnant and theoretically gonna write that book.
[00:16:24] Look up two years later, and I think by then I'd maybe published written like three romances.
[00:16:31] The third one had been picked up by this publisher and different publisher than the first because I was like, let's try again.
[00:16:39] Had been picked up by this publisher and I was like, okay, but I still think I want to write this series.
[00:16:46] And independent publishing has gone through a mini revolution in the time that I had a baby. So. So let me sit down and finish book two.
[00:16:57] I had written half a book like two or three years earlier, and I sat down to write the second half of the book.
[00:17:06] Oh, boy.
[00:17:07] I will say this. Reading the book, this is when I learned about the writing brain or my writing brain. The gap made no difference. The story to me reads cohesively, so you don't need to be inspired. You can start and stop and it'll be the same. Maybe not ten years later, but earlier when my writing was a little bit rougher, it was consistent.
[00:17:32] So I sat down to write this book and to flesh out the idea of whether or not men who abused women but were also in power could not be prosecuted and were not held accountable.
[00:17:54] So that's. But I'm thinking about it a lot now because unfortunately, in the morning, I swear I'm not going to doom scroll and I'm like, let me just check the. I'm just going to check the headlines. I'm just going to. Just going to sign into Google News and just check the headlines. And every headline is, well, except for the British people who apparently took some royal person into custody. The American headlines are, well, we don't know what they did. We don't know if these Epstein people who appeared are convicted. I started reading Nobody's Girl and I'm like, it's not.
[00:18:35] Don't. Anyway, so with that I have a lot of thoughts about whether or not it's.
[00:18:44] Let me say this, it's not that I'm. I've lost hope, but it's the same repeating thing.
[00:18:53] Women get abused by powerful men and nothing happens.
[00:18:59] And like the linear case, the way it's described, like in like when I was googling, now it's like the judge who got off and like it's described as this like outlier injustice and like in any other world, like he would be convicted for what he did.
[00:19:14] But I look up, it is nearly.
[00:19:22] Oh my God.
[00:19:27] Oh my God. 30 years later and little has changed.
[00:19:35] So with that, I bid you adieu.
[00:19:39] In the next few weeks, we'll be breaking down Ransomed, the second book in the Casey Court series.
[00:19:48] See you soon. Oh, by the way. Okay, I'm learning. I'm learning.
[00:19:52] If you're interested in keeping up with the Casey Court series and my channel as well as a time to thrill, I would like you to like, subscribe, share and you can hype the video. I don't have hypes, so I don't know who does. My son doesn't have hypes. I've met nobody who has these like mysterious hypes.
[00:20:11] But if you do and it's eligible, feel free until next time.
