Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Welcome to a time to thrill It's me, your host, Hamy Austin.
[00:00:07] Speaker A: Happy New Year.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: It's 2024. When I started this podcast in 2020 and I was stuck in the house along with the rest of you, I don't think I envisioned the future where we could go out and things would be fun again. And I'd also still be doing a podcast as you listen to this. I am probably in Budapest, actually. I know I'm in Budapest, and we'll be flying back to Los Angeles soon. This is pre recorded because the holidays get hectic and nobody wants to hear me on a plane. So let me say this. The thing I'm looking forward to most this year is the release of The Murders Began. It comes out February 8, 2024. You can preorder it anywhere. Ebooks are sold. I'm super excited about this book because it's a culmination of quite a few storylines over both the Casey Court and Nicole Long legal thriller series. And for once, there's some resolution with something. Sometimes some people get their comeuppance and some people really evolve. And I sort of love that in a book that said, I've started the next book. Super excited about it. It's going to answer the question that many of you asked, which is, what happened to Lulu? So in book, the next book that I'm working on now, which has no title, which is so rare, I'm going to need a title and a cover at some point, we're gonna tie up some big loose ends. What happens to Casey? What happens with Casey and Ron and Justin? What happens to Lulu? So many questions will be answered. I'm working on it right now.
This month, I have the great pleasure of interviewing USA Today bestselling author, Renee Rose. I met Renee in the most unusual places.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Actually, no, I met her in Houston.
[00:02:03] Speaker B: That said, the way I got to know her is in a divorced support group for romance authors, which we talk about book niches and sub niches. That's like the niches of niches of things. Yet it's a pretty active group of people. And we supported each other through the process of divorce and writing romance, or not reconfiguring our careers as people no longer married.
There are some other people in the group, one of whom I interviewed, but I'm not sure if we talked about it, so I will leave that out.
This interview is super interesting.
Renee Rose is one of the people and she's not the only one, but she's one of the people who I don't want to say this like there's no overnight success, but she got up one day and decided she was going to change her life and manifest greater success and abundance. And she has been able to do it. She became a seven figure author, and she's been able to maintain that for years. And I want to share this super interesting journey with you. So without further ado, USA Today best selling author, Renee Rose.
[00:03:26] Speaker A: Hi, and welcome to a time to Thrill. This is me, your host, Amy Austin. This month, I am super excited. I get too excited to talk to bestselling author Renee Rose. Hi, Renee.
[00:03:39] Speaker C: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I think we're excited, too.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: I know. I'm so happy that you're doing this. And actually, the first thing I think I want to do and I do this, actually with a lot of guests I want to thank you.
Okay. I'm really bad at time, especially with the pandemic. But somewhere like, let's say, two or three years ago, you gave me, like, a boost and amplified my romance pen name in your newsletter. And it was an amazing I know.
[00:04:11] Speaker C: I'd forgotten that.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: That's okay. It was super amazing because it connected me with a bunch of readers who like the kind of thing that I write in that realm. I mainly write thrillers now, but I'm an odball in the romance community, and since my books are a little out of the mainstream and I've made my peace with that, but it was interesting to connect with readers who are like, oh, we love this odball.
[00:04:39] Speaker C: Yes. I think there's a reader for everything. For sure. If you love it, someone not just someone, there's an infinite number of people who also love it and just lean into what you're best at.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:04:51] Speaker C: Lean into what you love.
[00:04:52] Speaker A: Yeah. So I want to thank you for that so much. It was needed at a time when I needed something. So the way that I met you actually, is through another author who I interviewed on the podcast, evelyn and Evelyn Adams. And the way we met is through what do you want to call it? Like a divorce support group for romance authors.
That's a very specific subgenre.
[00:05:20] Speaker C: The name of the Facebook group was so great. It was happily ever after.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: You yes.
So it came at a time I filed for divorce in 2018, and it came at a time when I really needed it. I think.
I believe I met Avalon and Ram. I don't know if you were there that year.
[00:05:41] Speaker C: Yes, I think I did too. Yes.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: I went 2017 and 2018 or 2018 and 2019, whatever. The years before the pandemic. The first year she had it, and then the next year, and then the next one was online, but I don't know what I said. I don't think I was there with my tragic story because I hadn't even told my ex that I was going to divorce. I was waiting till I came back from the trip because I didn't want to do it. And then, see, I'm going to Houston, and it was super helpful because it helped me not make mistakes other people hadn't made, especially regarding intellectual property rights, which is super important. And it was a bomb because it's a very divorce is universal, unfortunately. Fortunately, I don't know what to say. But it's something that many, many people experience.
But experiencing it as a person who's like an artist who's home alone often, you know what I mean, writing, doing your thing and then also dealing with intellectual property rights and royalties and those kinds of things was a super specific thing and it was a really helpful thing at the time. Did you found the group? I don't even know if I asked.
[00:06:53] Speaker C: No, I don't remember. But it was someone from Ram and I think she posted in the Ram group. Hey, anyone else like me going through a divorce? And I guess there were six of us who were all like me. Right.
You know, and then that's how it was. Like when you're thirsty and someone offers you a drink, it's like, oh, someone.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Else to talk to about yeah, it's about this very specific thing.
[00:07:21] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: So let me ask you this.
This is such a unique thing, but I did ask other people about this. How did your divorce affect your writing? Like, you continued to write romance post divorce. I did not.
So I'm always interested in people who continue on.
[00:07:41] Speaker C: It was interesting that I had no hiccup at all with that.
I think I poured myself into it. It was sort of like a distraction and a focus point. Like just, oh, write these books, write these books. Because I was like kind of at that stage of my career, it was like hamster on the wheel with the rapid release. And so I just stayed on the wheel. But I just started dating for the first time. It's been a year, little less than a year. So this January started dating and that really threw me off, the anxiety around a new relationship and then it ended and then recovery.
That was actually way more than my I think maybe my divorce was a long time coming, honestly.
[00:08:30] Speaker A: I think they mostly are, to be frank.
Well, my ex setting you a surprise, but we have been talking about the same problems over and over again with no resolution. So to me it was the culmination of those things not being resolved.
[00:08:45] Speaker C: Right.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: But I know that the person, at least in my case, I mean, I know this from reading books actually, that the people who initiate divorce are usually much farther along in the process.
[00:08:54] Speaker C: True.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: So there was that. So I have to ask how oh God. How did you find dating? Because well, I have a lot of thoughts about it post divorce. I'm not dating now because I found it to be, frankly, a lot of very time consuming with not a lot of reward. But that's me.
[00:09:12] Speaker C: Absolutely. No. And I hadn't had a date since I was like 2021 22.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: I know. I met my husband, I was 21 and I hadn't had a date.
[00:09:22] Speaker C: Yeah, right. And so it was like very like I was super stressed about it. I ended up hiring a company that basically it's like having a personal assistant for your dating. So they manage your apps, they chat people, they make you dates.
Yeah. And then they have, like there's like, science behind which pictures they choose because they call it like a visual narrative. So it's like the five or six pictures that you put on your profile show.
So they wanted, like, a picture of me dancing and a picture of me with friends. And it was so funny to see. And I don't know if when I go back to a dating app, I think I would do it myself, but I needed that. It's like having a friend to hold your hand.
[00:10:02] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:10:03] Speaker C: I needed that.
Someone to be like, you can do this. Let's go. Get out there.
[00:10:09] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
Wait, you use dating apps, which I have. Well, okay. There's a book called Data Clism by the it's maybe like okay, if it's 2013, maybe the book is eight or nine years old by the founder of OkCupid, and he talks a lot about the data science behind dating apps. And it's absolutely, utterly fascinating. If I had known that going in, I would have approached it much differently.
[00:10:35] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: So what was it about the dating that caused the hiccup? Was it the breakup or just the how can I say this? The time it takes to date is nothing like the time it takes to live.
[00:10:47] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I think the reason we find relationships is for the growth.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: I agree with you for that 100%.
[00:10:58] Speaker C: I think I'd done a lot of work around my self worth in my business to get myself to seven figures and to get rid of the impostor syndrome. Get rid of I mean, I'm sure we all have it at some point, but try to clear it consistently.
But I hadn't really done it how I relate to men. And so I was showing up to dating still being like, oh, I might be less than. Now, keep in mind I write dominant submissive. Like, that is my kink. And so I thought that I found and I did find I had the most amazing I don't know what I can say on here.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: You can say whatever bedroom relationship with this person.
[00:11:43] Speaker C: So we're on our first date and he's like, oh, it just tumbles out of my mouth. Like, oh, I'm submissive in bed. And he's like, oh, well, I'm a dom. And I was like, oh, my God.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: Here we go.
[00:11:53] Speaker C: And he fit like I had made you know, in my head, I was trying to manifest and he checked all the boxes that I had asked for. So I was like, oh, it's all that. Plus, I didn't even think to ask for a dom, and I got a dom. So I was like, oh my God, this is so perfect.
But the thing that I realized is that my less than feelings in a relationship were related to being submissive.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:14] Speaker C: So that setting me into that relationship, as hot as it was for me, showed me very quickly that I don't want to feel left out in a relationship.
Yeah, that's super sexually hot, but not.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: Fulfilling otherwise, to be honest, that sounds like a hard needle to threat because yes, how can I say this? As a woman of a certain age, I have found so I have mostly had dates with people who are age appropriate. And what I have found is that they grew up at the same time I did, but they have a lot of insecurity about not having more money, having a bigger house, having a better career, whatever that stuff is, seems really prominent and I don't know did you encounter that at all? Because that was one of the most annoying things, to be honest. Kind of annoying?
[00:13:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, no, because I had put in the request, like, I want someone who's wealthy and successful and his kids are grown already, so it was like all of that. So he was like twelve years older than me with four grown kids and already made his fortune. So it was like he checked all those boxes that I thought I wanted checked. Not that any of that was a problem, but it activated my then wanting to kind of daddy me, right. Activated my feelings of, oh gosh, am I doing this right? Sort of in an anxious response to like, oh, I'm trying to get this right for him.
And then it turns out, like, I could never get it right for him because he had that he was in lack. Everything he saw was not enough, even though he was absolutely consuming me.
And it very quickly came. It's kind of cool that it was so short that I could learn because it was over in six months.
And then it caused a complete, like another up level for me, just the way the divorce was a huge up level and this was another.
And that's why I say relationships are for growth, right? Because it was another huge up level for me in terms of like, okay, I actually need to believe that I am worthy of being honored and loved and cherished and devoted to. And I don't want to be with someone I have to prove myself to someone who sees lack in me.
It's okay if there's like, someone does something you don't want, but then you make a request, you don't go into a story about how they're lacking for you.
[00:14:57] Speaker A: No, that sounds like the Logan Yuri Maximizer sort of thing, where there is no the way I think of it, and this is not okay. You know how there's like that manic Pixie Dream Girl sort of fantasy that men have that you're going to be they talk about it in Gotten Girl, but it's like this idea that she's going to be great and eat burgers and be a lot of fun and have a lot of sex and do all these things. And if I just can find all of this in one person, then it'll be magic, and there's no magical enough person, and then they have to address their issue with them being enough and then other people being enough.
Yeah, I haven't solved that one. So next I don't know. But then why would that or how did that affect your writing? Because I didn't find actually, I don't know. I did write romance after maybe I wrote four more romances after my separation, and then I don't know, I was just done because I think my lack of ability to understand healthy male female relationships made it difficult to write them in a way that resonated with readers.
[00:16:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I was having a ton of sex, like, just crazy. And so that was interesting because I'd go to write a sex scene, and it was so boring to me to write because I used to write as a fantasy outlet.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
[00:16:36] Speaker C: And so now I'm like, all my fantasies are being fulfilled. And I almost felt like I was cheating on him when I was writing these scenes. It was very OD.
So they were just, like, super flat and flat enough that my editor was like, this was not as hot as your usual stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I just can't seem to pull it out. I don't know.
But at that point, I was still happy enough that I'm like, okay, well, I'll ride this out. It'll figure itself out. And it did. It's just not the way I thought it was going to figure itself out.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: Okay, so how many books have you written? I always ask this.
[00:17:10] Speaker C: I have lost count. It's definitely in the 150 range. Somewhere in there.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
Well, I have so many questions about your books, but okay, let me go back. What made you start writing romance? Because it's a very specific niche. I'm sure there's tons of people who would like to write a novel, but I don't know the percentage who are like, I would like to write romance, and this is my specific niche.
[00:17:35] Speaker C: I got my degree in creative writing, but I was more sort of poetry focused in college. It's a very marketable skill. Absolutely.
So naturally, I didn't get a job right out of college writing poetry, so I was working as a technical writer, and I went to visit a friend. The part about college the reason I mentioned college is that we were very discouraged from writing genre fiction. So it was like, really? Like, I had a professor who was like, if you turn in genre fiction, I won't read it.
So it was like literary fiction or best.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:18:08] Speaker C: Because of that, I sort of looked down my nose, like, oh, I'm a better writer than romance, mystery, Sci-Fi, whatever, thriller that's for the low brow people.
Not that I didn't read that stuff, but I don't know. I just had this idea in my head. So then I went to visit a friend who I consider highbrow. She's always one of those people you always have a really fun, interesting, creative, intelligent conversation with. And this is back before Kindle. So I asked before I got on the plane, I said, do you have a book I can take back when we used to lend each other?
And she's like, Here, she handed me a Jenny Cruzey novel oh, okay. Who I just fell in love with. And I was like this. I was like, Wait, this is a romance? And she's, yeah, yeah, read it. You're going to like it. And I was like, Wait, you read romance? Because I still had this idea of, like, romances for the gutters.
It was so stupid. And she was like, Just try it. You're going to like it. She was right. Like, I went home, and I had to read every book Jenny Cruz had ever written.
And then it wasn't of course. Then I was like, I want to write this stuff. So I started on a medieval romance. I worked for a year.
It's never seen the light of day because it's not worth doing anything with. And then I stumbled upon 50 shades of gray.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:19:31] Speaker C: And that's where I was like, oh, my God. Because I'd been, like, closeted kinky for my whole life.
My dolls were getting spanked forever. And so then it was like the mashup of romance, which I loved kink, which I love. That was in my head all the time. Anyway, and so I sat down and I wrote in six days, I wrote, like, a little novella, like a 25,000 word novella, and I sent it to a niche publisher who was publishing BDSM, and they had just hired a new editor. And so mine was like, the first thing on his desk. I love it.
[00:20:13] Speaker A: Stars aligned.
[00:20:13] Speaker C: But yeah, this is like the angels were like, you found your calling right here. So then immediately I don't remember, within days, he's like, it's great. We love it. Just make these changes or we're going to work on a little bit. But it was published, like, two weeks later. It's crazy.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
[00:20:29] Speaker C: And then my first check was $4,500.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: You're like, Wait a second.
[00:20:34] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm like, a nobody author. And they just put it on Amazon. It was selling, like, 100 copies a week.
Then I was like, oh, I definitely found my calling. And of course, the next books were not it wasn't that easy, and it wasn't that successful, but I felt like that was the push when you need to get yourself on a road, right?
[00:20:57] Speaker A: That is a great way how can I say it's? A great shot out of the cannon, you know what I mean?
[00:21:02] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:21:02] Speaker A: There you go.
Okay, I have so many questions.
How did you find so your first experience was fairly positive.
So then and I'll ask you this because I don't know, because let me say that I went to look on Amazon. I was like, I'm going to have to hit show more so many times. I got other things to do.
Actually, they don't separate translations. And I was like, this is going to take forever. So when did you make the switch? Or what made you delve into indie publishing then?
[00:21:38] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:21:41] Speaker A: I'm asking because most people I know who switched because it was a negative experience. And you're the first person who's saying it wasn't. Like, they buried my book under the thing, and I got a check for $10, and my friend got a check for $45,000, and therefore I'm going to do this other thing.
[00:21:57] Speaker C: Yeah, no, it went on for okay, so that was like 2012, 1314. So it wasn't until like, 2017 that I did my next that I went off on my own. So, yeah, in the meantime, I was making like 35 to 45,000 a year for them.
And then I had a friend invite me to do, like, an indie project. Like one of those anthologies.
[00:22:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:22:21] Speaker C: And she was like, let's write the darkest, dirtiest smuttiest Sci-Fi ever. And I was like, I'm in.
And I think because of that challenge, it allowed me to go.
I don't want to say raunchier, but more than I would have dared because she had said darker than that, as dark as you want. Like, go. So it's called His Human Slave, and she's like a breeder for this alien prince.
And so we put that out and it was a huge success. And then I was like, okay, because we put that out on our own. Like, as an indie, there was five of us, right? And so then from there, I was like when I got my rights back, I don't know if it was three months. I forget how long we did that for.
I had already written or I was wrapping up book two and I got the nudge. Book one was like 50,000 words and I was not that far. Book two was like, not feeling that long, but I got the nudge. Like, just wrap it up. It's okay if it's shorter, but do this rapid release thing that everyone's talking about on Amazon. This is 2017, right?
I self pubbed His Human Slave as my own, and then I dropped His Human prisoner three weeks later. And that was my first five figure month.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:23:41] Speaker C: And then I was like, okay, Indy's words. Got it. Message received. Yeah, thank you.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: Okay, that's so interesting because we talk about that.
There's another author who has a similar sort of story about reaching at that reaching the five figure month. I don't want to say this later. It's not like there's like a timeline, but you know what I mean? Later on in the indie process, because most people I know who did the best they could was like 20, 14, 15 was that magical, mystical moment.
I'm going to ask you this, because by the time 2017 came around let me think. Yeah, okay. By the time 2017 came around, there was this I don't want to say that the bloom was off the rose, but there was a sense that, yes, there's like a golden ticket, but it's going to be harder to get than it would have been in 2013. And so people were feeling a little bit defeated back then and made decisions accordingly. That's a different thing. But you went in a different direction. I'll just say that. Yeah.
[00:24:46] Speaker C: I mean, I think this is that thing of like, I like sky. Warren says that authors will always say the sky is always falling, and this is that. Because I think that in this industry, things change so fast.
So it's know, what I did before TikTok is not the I'm definitely would complain, like, oh, yeah, the rose is off the bloom because now you have to be on TikTok. And I'm no good at that.
But it's like the people who made the killing initially when things were easy, didn't know things were going to be easy. Right. They were just following their love, their passion. Right?
[00:25:24] Speaker A: Right.
[00:25:26] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's like about following the like, instead of trying to copycat or being like, oh, gosh, I can't do that anymore. Which sometimes copycat is the like, if you get the nudge, copycat, by all means copycat. I'm all about following the nudge, which was what the Sci-Fi was. We were like, oh, Sci-Fi is kind of booming. Let's try this sci-fi. I wasn't like, oh, God, I'm dying to write an alien.
[00:25:45] Speaker A: Right?
[00:25:47] Speaker C: But it's like planting the seeds at the right time kind of thing.
So like, writing what you love, but going with what's in trend, right?
[00:25:59] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:26:02] Speaker C: So I think that there's always money to be had. It's just like they say, even in the Depression, people were getting rich, right? There's always money somewhere. And so if you intend it right, you tell the universe, I'm looking to be successful. Show me. And then you get the invitation to write the smutty Sci-Fi, and it feels light in your body. Like, your body goes, yeah, that sounds fun. Or like, whatever about it. Something feels fun, light and fluffy. Not like, oh, God, I have to write a sci-fi. I hate Sci-fi.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Right?
[00:26:33] Speaker C: Then it wasn't right for know, but you get the invitation and it feels light, or you overhear someone's like, oh, I'm doing a Direct store.
You know, the Direct sales is like, all the thing now. Like, the first time, it was N s. Johnson was like, you guys, I'm doing direct sales. And it was so light in my like, I was I remember.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:26:52] Speaker C: Like, that's great.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: Yeah, she gave that presentation. I want to say like two or three years ago, I have to think.
[00:26:56] Speaker C: About yeah, I think it was not this last summer, but the summer before.
She was sharing it with me and I was super just like got all lit up about like I could feel that there was potential there.
So anything like same thing. Like when Facebook ads know, people started getting excited first about Facebook ads, I felt that excitement and it resonated and I made a killing with so like you're just intending that I'm looking for the abundance, where is it? And then it's like surfing. You're like, oh, it's over here, let me follow that follow that wave kind of thing.
[00:27:35] Speaker A: Ask you a huge question because you're clocking. Okay, so obviously not obviously, we all know a lot of authors and so you hear a lot of different perspectives on the business at any given time. So the sky is falling or it's like the biggest wave ever, or it's the gold rush or it's famine. Whatever you hear when you're talking about the lightness, how do you overcome the inertia? Because I know a lot of people, let me say this, a lot of authors I know get a lot of opportunities and so they either I think people sort of stall in the face of making choices, which is one thing, or there's a sense of inertia. Like, I want to do Facebook ads, but it's going to be a learning curve. I'm hearing this now. I want to do direct sales, but the shopify store thing feels overwhelming or whatever. The thing is, they feel compelled to some degree to do the thing that looks like it's going to open doors or fatten their wallet or whatever that is.
But the inertia that friction between the idea and the execution is one of the pain points I see most with authors I know.
[00:28:48] Speaker C: Yes, that is such a great question because that comes back to the clearing your self worth blocks. Or there's one I don't feel like I have the time, I don't trust myself to be able to follow through on this.
That may work for her, but it doesn't work for me. We have these worthiness blocks or the.
[00:29:11] Speaker A: Stories we tell ourselves.
[00:29:12] Speaker C: Yeah, the self identity stuff can be just so huge there. And so really being willing to look at yourself and go, oh, that's just a block, that's not true.
That's not a truth. Like anything that makes you feel heavy like that and the way you describe that inertia, it's literally like drag on your system, right? It's like drag on your energetic field. So it's like you got the nudge and it was light and then this.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: Thing is dragging like a ball and chain. It's like I have this idea and you can see the it's sort of like right now it's telling you it's like cloudy and you can see the sun peeking through the clouds, but then you're. Like, oh, but this ball and chain means I can't move past this point, right?
[00:29:51] Speaker C: And so then just going like, okay, wait, that's not true. And that's something I want to clear.
And the thing I've been realizing I'm listening to that I always get the title wrong, the book.
Oh, my gosh. Here, wait, let me just pull it up because I always screw it up.
Okay. Breaking the habit of being you. Being yourself by Joe Dispenza.
So I'm just realizing more and more that if you're really identified with your story, whatever it is, that doesn't work for me. I'm not good at TikToks, whatever the story is that you've, the more attached you are to your story, the less willing you are to have that not be your story. The more drag, the heavier that ball is, right?
So I have a story that I'm not good at networking, and I'm not good. I kind of shrink when I go to the signings, I kind of shrink.
And I think part of it is I'm energetically sensitive, so I get sort of overstimulated, but in a like, oh, my God, I'm going to screw this up. I don't know how to behave. I have that old middle school I don't know the right thing to say. I'm going to get it wrong.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: Right?
[00:31:08] Speaker C: And I just realized this morning it was like, are you willing to have that's a lie? Are you willing to have that not be the story you tell yourself about yourself anymore?
[00:31:21] Speaker A: Okay. Because I'm trying to think.
I have this conversation often and even with the authors I know who are in therapy because some of those are old tapes. You know what I mean? Parents, we could get into the list of why there's old tapes that English teacher told me I never could write. And you're still stuck on that from 20 years ago.
I think the biggest hurdle is the letting go of that story. People seem wedded, even though it's a negative story, people are very attached to them, and getting past that is one of the biggest stumbling blocks I see.
I think there's two cost of authorized. I see some who are, I have this awful story, but I'm going to do it anyway because what else am I going to do?
Or I have this awful story. And so every day, I'm going to get up and say, I'm going to, I don't know, open a TikTok account. It doesn't matter whatever it is. I'm going to do a goodreads giveaway, whatever it is, but they never do it because they have already redetermined that the result is going to be bad, right.
[00:32:26] Speaker C: Or I mean, you could even get as far I've done this a lot where I'm like, okay, I'm going to make a TikTok a day, but my heart's not in it. Right? I'm trying to overcome my beliefs that I'm not good at TikTok by forcing myself to do it, but my energy is still not aligned. Nothing's going to go viral because I'm not Kate Hall going, oh, my God, you guys, the algorithm. It's so fun. Look at like, I'm the TikTok.
And so of course I'm not going to go viral because it's just not fun for me until I get aligned, which I'm not yet, but I would love to be because I'd like to have that not be my story.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: Right.
[00:33:02] Speaker C: So it's like the willingness to get aligned with what you desire.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: Okay.
I have two completely different mindsets questions I want to ask. Okay. So let me start. So I'm going to ask you two different things, and the first is going to be a little bit about 50 Shades in that, and then the other one is going to be about abundance, which are basically not even the same thing, but I'm just telling where my mind is going so I can see the future. Okay, well, I'll ask you because I haven't actually never asked you this. How do you feel about the success of 50 Shades?
I don't want to say, were you surprised? That's not really the right way.
[00:33:41] Speaker C: I mean, I loved it was a game changer.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:33:44] Speaker C: I know. As much as everybody likes to dog on it.
[00:33:48] Speaker A: Well, in terms of the writing or whatever, but I'm actually not asking about that. People have so many feelings about it. It's interesting. It's the thing I'm going to be honest, I don't really have a lot of feelings about.
[00:33:59] Speaker C: I mean, to me, it shows it's almost better to me that people dog on the writing so much because then I can always point out, like, hey, you think your books aren't good enough, right? 50 Shades of Gray has an average of three stars, and she signed a $99 million deal.
[00:34:20] Speaker A: Right.
[00:34:21] Speaker C: So don't say that you're not good enough to be a millionaire author.
It's there. It's there for you.
[00:34:28] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:34:31] Speaker C: And I think that's, like, it just showed this potential that we can and I always say that four minute mile thing, how nobody could break the four minutes until someone did, and then everyone could.
[00:34:40] Speaker A: Right? Yes.
[00:34:41] Speaker C: I think that's what she did for us. She's like, hey, look, you can have something that you started writing as fan fiction, go crazy viral, and you can make multiple million off.
[00:34:54] Speaker A: Right? That is so interesting because yes. Okay. So I'm starting to see the dichotomy as I'm talking to you, because it seems like there's a dichotomy in romance. There's people who are like, this is the worst thing ever, and romance will never recover, or this is the best thing ever, because it's now elevated this visibility wise, you know what I'm saying?
Without getting bogged down in the themes of whether or not he's a little stalkerish or you know what I mean? Like, I'm going to give you a phone and computer, and I'm going to control it. There's a bunch of issues like that, but separate apart from that, it certainly did raise the visibility of romance to such a degree, I can't so people who had never thought much about romance knew about 50 Shades, right? Even if they had never heard of Pick Your Super best selling romance Author.
[00:35:44] Speaker C: Right.
[00:35:45] Speaker A: Okay, so there is that. And then the issue about the writing, that's actually true, because I think that so we were just talking off mic about Ram, the romance author mastermind. And I believe Sky Warren said, I want to say in the first like, on the first day, she's like, It's not the writing. And that was one of those moments, because not all of us, some of us many I specifically do get bogged down in, is the writing good enough? Is the writing engaging enough?
And to be honest, I don't think that's my issue. I know what my issues are.
But we do get bogged down in that in ways I can't I mean, I've had so many conversations with so many people. We don't talk about crafts per se, but we talk about well, the reason I only sold 1000 copies or 1500 copies or whatever it is, is because of the writing. And I think that my 50 Shades. And there's this other author, I want to say, but she had pages and pages of description. Is it kristen ashley. And I think then it was not about the writing per se, but there's something compelling about the story itself.
[00:36:51] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. I had this thought I think you're onto something. I had this thought in the shower yesterday, and it's about, like so the indie authors, without having the publisher who scrapes them into the like, anywhere they go outside the lines, they get kind of nudged back in, right?
[00:37:08] Speaker A: Very much.
[00:37:10] Speaker C: For example, I don't know if you've ever read Joanna Bourne, who I love, and she writes Regency, and her first one, they were like, It needs a was. So she sort of crammed a little ballroom scene in there. But the book to her wasn't about a ball.
And I was thinking about LJ Shen, and her books are a little bit outside the lines, and the ones she's done for Montleg are inside the lines, but not as deliciously addictive. I mean, I actually love them, but they don't have that same when you're just writing for yourself, that angsty.
They're more presentable and maybe less addictive in that weight of the sort of unedited, like 50 Shades was. She was just writing her own thing, right? No one got to tell her, no, that's dumb, or, that doesn't fit.
[00:38:08] Speaker A: It's too much. It won't sell. Where are we going to shelve it all of that, it's too dirty.
[00:38:13] Speaker C: Tone it down. I mean, I do that to myself all the time. And then that was that Sci-Fi thing. She was like, as dark as you want. I was like, really? Because I've been owning it down. I'm trying to make it fit even in the lines of Kink, right? Like, I can have a breeder.
And then that was hugely popular. Like I said, if you imagine if you think it's hot, everyone's going to not everyone. Definitely not everyone. But there are readers for everything.
[00:38:40] Speaker A: Right? That is fascinating. Okay. Because it's just one of those things where people in Indie were free to some extent to do that. But still people felt at least authors I have spoken with still felt some you know, it may go back to the days, especially some of us who are traditionally published, and people who especially were traditionally published by whether Hartlequin or whatever it is. So they really did nudge you back and you'd read like an author's first book with some line or something, and it was like slightly out of the box, but they bought it. But every subsequent book became more and more homogenized, to be frank.
[00:39:19] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: And what I did like about Indie was sort of people throw the doors open and we're going to see.
And I did really like that aspect. But when the sales were not commensurate with that openness, for some people, every book can't be a bestseller, obviously, right. People really struggled with whether or not people really did like things within the lines. Know, the COVID had to have Manchester, whatever it was. Did it have to be the most saleable?
[00:39:55] Speaker C: I mean, I know for me, I write kinky. And I was always like, okay. I was always nudging myself, trying to get more and more mainstream.
And then I know I'm going to forget who the name of the author was, but at some point last year, we were like, look, there's a daddy book is number one on Amazon.
I was like, Why did I not think I could write daddy books anymore?
What made me think that wasn't going to sell?
Yes, this may be less publisher friendly.
[00:40:26] Speaker A: But I'm not sure.
[00:40:28] Speaker C: I'm not shopping to a publisher.
Yeah, I wish I could think. I can't think who it was.
[00:40:36] Speaker A: I don't know if I remember.
[00:40:37] Speaker C: I might think of it later.
[00:40:38] Speaker A: Okay, so then the other thing I was going to ask you is why abundance?
Okay. Lots of authors, I don't call it a side hustle, have moved off into the thing that interests them, whether it's like ads or I don't know. There's an author I used to know locally who she used to be a bookkeeper, and she sort of veered off into this thing, like bookkeeping and ways for authors to manage their money and things, you know what I mean? People have their thing, but your thing, as it were, is abundance. And I want to know how you got there, because you got there at a time when people were feeling a little craven, you know what I mean? They're a little like, oh, no, right, yeah, no.
[00:41:23] Speaker C: Energy is my jam.
And I've been into law of attraction stuff for 30 years, so definitely my area of interest.
[00:41:37] Speaker A: Right.
[00:41:42] Speaker C: I don't know how it even got out, but somehow Sky Warren knew that I was into it.
[00:41:47] Speaker A: She has eyes everywhere.
[00:41:49] Speaker C: I'm not sure how, I don't know. But she invited me to do a roundtable at I think it was the third round, the one that was online.
[00:41:58] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:42:01] Speaker C: And I was so excited because I was like, oh, my God, this is my favorite topic. And I've never talked to authors about it. So it was like, wow, okay. Yeah. And then it was like, oh, it's like a blending of my two worlds. Because for a long time, well, authoring was my side hustle initially, and then it sort of flipped the other way. But I'm a healer. Like, I do energetic body work.
So this was like a mashup of my two careers. Sort of a way to show the side of myself to my author community. So that was fun.
[00:42:36] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:42:37] Speaker C: Yeah. And then I started working on the book Right to Riches right after that because it was like, hey, I've got something to say in this area.
[00:42:46] Speaker A: Oh, that's so interesting because Theodore did the same thing with seven figure fiction, like, right after she did the present. Yes.
She was like I remember we were talking about it. She her and like a third person, she was like, I think I'm going to do this. We're like, go do it. You know what mean? Like, yes, you got the invitation. You realize you have more to say. Go do it.
[00:43:04] Speaker C: Yes. And she was actually the one who she gave me Lisa Daley's name. Lisa Daley is like a nonfiction author.
[00:43:12] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:43:13] Speaker C: And because I had no idea how to write a nonfiction book, and so that was immensely have just like with the dating where I needed someone to push me along so I would have like a weekly appointment. So I had to write a chapter to show up and see what and she's just a genius at she'll read it really quick and show how it needs to be tweaked and where I should go and it's just amazing.
[00:43:34] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:43:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:43:37] Speaker A: Okay. So when you did the Right to Riches, I don't want to say you came out, as it were, but then when did you start the Abundance group and newsletter? Because I feel like it happened over know, it's hard to know people in the past because things happen over time and so it's never like know what I'm saying?
[00:43:55] Speaker C: Well, I started the Facebook group when I did that ram talk because I wanted to have a little place for people to pop in.
[00:44:02] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:44:03] Speaker C: I think I don't know.
[00:44:05] Speaker A: I know I'm in the group.
If you were to ask me what date, I'd have no idea. You know what I mean?
[00:44:10] Speaker C: Yeah. And then I sort of started collecting emails from people at that same time, but I had like, 25 people or something, just sort of sort of grew from there and then Right to Riches came out a year ago. So what is that, 2022? Yes, it was a few years after.
[00:44:28] Speaker A: Okay. To me it feels like it feels ages ago, but I guess like time. Oh, my God.
[00:44:33] Speaker C: Right?
[00:44:34] Speaker A: Okay. And so what were you going for with Right to Riches? Because how can I say this?
[00:44:41] Speaker C: No, you're right. It was three years ago.
[00:44:43] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:44:44] Speaker C: No, I was like, that can't be.
I think the book came out two years ago, and then a year ago I launched the course.
[00:44:51] Speaker A: Okay. Now I feel better. I lost a year, so that's fine.
[00:44:55] Speaker C: No, I mean, I'm not sure, but I think okay, I guess I lose my time, too.
[00:45:04] Speaker A: I don't even know because you applied these principles in your own life, and I want to know, I guess how did you how can I say this? Okay, so there's a saying that there was one saying that knowledge is half the battle, but that turns out not to be true because people certainly have knowledge about diet, exercise.
We know a lot of things. We know that perhaps maybe we should not all be driving gas guzzling cars. You know what I mean? It's not that we don't have the knowledge, it's the application of the knowledge. And so I want to know what was the turning point where you were able to let's go back, manifest for yourself? What made you think, one day this is not going to be my side hustle, now I'm going to move to make second figure seven figures, but then also do it?
[00:45:48] Speaker C: No, I was like, from the moment I heard about 50 Shades of Gray, I was like, I'm doing that.
And my friends would just laugh, like, okay, but I don't think this is your book. And I was like, no, this is the one. I'm going to make 99 million. And they're like, yeah, that's so cute.
So I haven't made 99 million yet, but this is my fourth year as a seven figure author, so I think just having that attention and desire is what pulled it in.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: But what made you think how can I say this? And I don't mean this in any way that's negative, but I don't want to say this the way it's going to come out, but what made you think you could do it? Because the people I know who want to do that feel like in order to do that, they have to write the most mainstream, cupcake loving, firefighting CAKECAKE loving heroine, firefighting hero. That's still appealable, and whether that's a Manchester or cartoon cover is the only way to do it. And anything that slightly veers from the most straight arrow social norm will not get them.
[00:46:55] Speaker C: I mean, and that's where I think because I've been following Law of Attraction for so long, I definitely believe in that things can manifest magically.
Things will show up that you never could have manufactured yourself just by putting it out there. You're casting a wide net saying, like, I'm open to something magical to show up. And it will. And it may not be the way you pictured, but it's still so did you start small?
[00:47:27] Speaker A: So one of the things that we used to do oh, my God. I don't know. I see I'm trying to date myself. Maybe before Ram, we had like a group and we had started doing the vision boards.
[00:47:38] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: So we started that, let's say three years ago.
[00:47:42] Speaker C: I don't know.
[00:47:42] Speaker A: I could have to look on the computer. So we did things like that. But how can we say this? Most of others I know been sort of pussy footing around, like, Law of Attraction or pussy footing around manifestation, because it's like, I believe it works, but I don't want to bet on it. I don't know how to say, I don't want to get my hopes up. I think that's exactly it. That's exactly the right way. And so people are like, I want to believe it, but I don't want to get my hopes up and be disappointed.
[00:48:11] Speaker C: Right?
[00:48:11] Speaker A: So then it becomes another friction point, pain point, half measure sort of thing.
[00:48:16] Speaker C: Well, and this is why when I address romance authors, I'm like, I feel like they're going to get this because this is like your heroine or your hero who are afraid to love again. And yet we know the whole time we're rooting for them because we know that if they'll just get over that, they're going to have a happily ever after.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: Right?
[00:48:33] Speaker C: It's guaranteed because they're reading a romance.
[00:48:35] Speaker A: Right.
[00:48:36] Speaker C: So same thing. Your happily ever after is guaranteed because you're asking the universe, and the universe knows what's best for you and you're open to receive it. And so in my case, it may be like dating the guy who wasn't the guy, but it created a huge up level in terms of what I believe I'm worth.
Yeah, maybe that wasn't the way I thought it was going to go, but it was absolutely for my highest good.
[00:49:07] Speaker A: Okay, so how do you bounce back from things like that? Because what I'm finding, okay, I 100% agree with you, and I think that what I have found, especially like dating post divorce, is like, oh, I deserve something different. You know what I mean? But it took this is the part I don't like. It took being offered like a shit sandwich and you go, no, I don't think I need that. But I had to be standing there for the offer to come and go, oh, no.
And that's not the enjoyable part. That's the thing I think I don't like about growth. And maybe that's the pain point, you know, that something you're going to have to go through something hard.
It doesn't have to be painful, per se or injuring or something, but you're going to have to go through something hard to get that growth. And the hard part is slightly unpleasant.
[00:50:00] Speaker C: Yeah. But truly, the more connected you feel to yourself and feeling like you have support from the universe, like, the easier and easier those crises become.
Like, even, you know, I was very emotional, and I don't know, in my 20s, like, just everything was kind of a big drama.
But then once I started getting connected and feeling like I had tools and I had support, I remember my mom dying and thinking, like, wow, I handled this so much more beautifully than before, when I'd be like, in drama and trauma about it and grief just with that. It's more like it gives you that zoomed out vision of, okay, death happens, right? Breakups happen. They're not like, oh, my God, I'm in the middle, and it's all drama and trauma and what was me. I can't believe this is happening to me.
That is just a crazy story to keep you from evolving. And you could definitely stay in that. You could stay in the like, I had this horrible marriage as a victim. You could stay in that victim role. Even though you've left it, you're still in it for the rest of your life. That's a choice you could make, but you haven't chosen that, right?
[00:51:29] Speaker A: Yes.
There's so many people that you know. I've seen people get stuck there. He left me.
I know somebody who was stuck there for, like, 15 years, and it was really painful to watch. It's like, he left me, and I don't know who I am anymore.
And this is like, no shade, but you sort of want to shake them and go, okay, I know he left you, and it's fat, and he married somebody else and had some more kids. All these things I'm not saying any of that is delightful and lovely, but you can't I don't know what you're going to gain by staying in that space.
[00:52:02] Speaker C: Right.
And that's where they get caught up with that. That becomes an identity. Right.
Or just an energetic pattern they don't know how to break out of.
[00:52:12] Speaker A: So then what do you think is not the magic? I'm always looking. Maggie mara. Excuse me, she's like, that golden unicorn is not right around the corner. I'm like, yes, it is.
[00:52:20] Speaker C: Yes, it is. But.
[00:52:24] Speaker A: What is the way that people can break out of that? I've seen people break out of it, and I've seen people stuck in it. And if you were to ask me what the difference is, actually, I don't know if I know.
[00:52:34] Speaker C: Well, to me, I believe it's the reprogramming your subconscious, because I don't know, people throw out these things. Like, how much of your life is only controlled, like, 10% as your conscious and, like, 90% as your subconscious? I don't know if that's true or not.
And so I like to work with my subconscious energetically or through meditation, hypnosis. And that was my thought this morning when I was like, what if you didn't decide you were bad at speaking to people?
[00:53:07] Speaker A: Right?
[00:53:09] Speaker C: And then I was like, what if it was just that easy to reprogram yourself? And then I was like, oh my God, I don't even need to reprogram myself. I just needed to decide it.
[00:53:16] Speaker A: I think that's true. You reminded me of something. So when I was in school as a kid, I hated oral reports. I'm so dating myself. We had to get your poster board and do your whole thing. Yeah. And I remember I don't know, I remember where I was sitting, but maybe I was 1415 six and I couldn't tell you that. And I remember thinking to myself, what if I didn't care about what people thought of me during public speaking? And what if I just did it? And do you know, after that, I've never had any fear of public speaking. And people I know it's one of people's primary fears. And people are like, do you fear public speak? And I'm like, one day I decided I wasn't going to be bothered with that. And it's never changed. So I know that I can do it regarding some things, but actually my.
[00:53:57] Speaker C: Eating disorder was like that. I was a dancer, and so I had many dancers. An eating disorder. And then I had a friend shame me over it.
It was like one of those you need to get counseling, blah blah. And then I was so offended that I was like because it had been my story, like, oh, I do this thing right?
And then I was so offended that she was seeing me as less than because I had this thing, or I thought I had this thing that I never did it again.
[00:54:29] Speaker A: That's fascinating.
You reminded me all these things. So my maternal grandmother smoked. So she was born in 1920, so let's say she smoked from, I don't know, the remember one day previous to that, smoking was not considered unhealthy. But when we all decided that smoking was going to kill you, I remember there being like some news reporter, something like late 70s, early 80s, something like that, maybe mid eighty s. And she was like, you know, I'm going to give up smoking. And she threw out the like, what did she smoke, Paul? Malls. I don't even know if this exists anymore.
And she stopped smoking and she never smoked again. And it drove other people crazy. And they're like, what did you do? And she was like, I decided that this was not going to be who I am anymore. And she gave it up.
[00:55:21] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:55:22] Speaker A: I was there. I don't remember having nicotine withdrawals and all that. Maybe she did. And I just was as a child, just not particularly observant. But I always thought that that was such a mind over matter moment where she was like, this is how I'm going to change and did it. And I always admired her for that because I've seen other people try to quit and oh my God, it's a shit show. But I really appreciated that mind over matter moment. So I've seen them in myself and others. It's just it doesn't seem to be the I don't want to say the norm.
It seems like for most people, changing patterns that they want to change. And knowing that they want to change it is still really difficult.
[00:56:02] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's where I think getting help I don't want to say getting help is not the way I meant to say that because it's like, my friend shaming me.
But I don't mean that. But like, joining our group, who you surround yourself with, because how you tell that story, if you tell that story as drama and trauma to me, I'm not going to reflect it back to you, right? Because I'm like, oh, she's in drama and trauma. I'm not going to go, oh my God, you're right. That's so awful.
But if you're with people who are wallowing, if you dig a pit and sit in it, you'll find other people who want to sit in it with you.
[00:56:39] Speaker A: That's true.
[00:56:40] Speaker C: Or you'll join someone else in their pit, right?
So if you join the Abundance Authors group, you're going to be with people who are like, yes, yes, you can do it, and you're not going to get this guy's falling stories.
In fact, we had one. I went in to delete it because someone was like, Amazon, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, that is not in the spirit. And then I went back and she was like, revise. They gave me my money. I was like, okay, that is in the spirit.
[00:57:08] Speaker A: So interesting because I do have these conversations. Like, I just did a free book, know. So somebody said to me, oh, are you going to have a problem matching free? And I thought I've never had I don't know if you know Diane Capri, but she and I have talked about it because we talk about, like, the minute you email them, they make it free. And sometimes it's too early, like, earlier than you had wanted it to be free. Let's just say.
So every time I say that and then somebody's like, oh my God, are you going to have problems? And I thought, I've never had any problems, and I don't ever go in anticipating any problems.
And then I emailed them and then they made it free instantly. And I was like, it's still more days early than I want, but that's better than waiting to the last minute and having a problem. But it's so interesting because I do run into people whenever I say I'm going to do something. And their first question is, oh my God, are you going. To have a problem, right?
[00:57:57] Speaker C: And then you could easily go to like, oh God, it's going to be a problem and then give yourself a problem. Right?
[00:58:02] Speaker A: And I usually think to myself, no, because it doesn't work that way, but it's only for certain things. If somebody said to me, are you going to have a problem about something else? I'd probably wallow.
Let me ask you, how do you stay out of that? Because there is negativity, that's the thing. And it's not always avoidable. And to the extent I think about this often I have limited, how can I say this, associating with certain negative people. And I've not always told them that's why sure, I'd love to hang out but every time we do, you cry about Amazon and I don't want to have that conversation for the 942nd time. Right? And I don't say that and I do well, no, this is my personal thing. I have feelings about that because I know people feel like I may cut them off, but I don't necessarily want to say to people, you're always so negative because I don't know where you get go with that. So I'd have to personally work on that. But I do make an effort to limit negativity. It still comes in because there's always going to be that. How do you not let that negativity affect you? Because look, authors are home all day, like a lot of us are home all day. And so while some of us may be positive 90% of the time, social media and other platforms sort of do promote negativity. So there's some people who are like maybe positive in their whole life, but the minute they get online they're like amazon's going to screw me and Apple did this and Kobo's not good anymore and whatever, we could go on forever. So how do you or not let.
[00:59:27] Speaker C: It affect my police, my words? Because I know that the words I speak, I am speaking them into being. So the story like if I choose to tell a drama trauma story, I am solidifying that energy into more drama. And so my co author and I Lee, the co author, Lee and I, that's kind of have we started a joint KDP account for our jointly penned books. And so because it's a different account than my personal account, every time we publish there they block our book or they've shut that account down twice and we just choose not to go into drama trauma about it. So we're so grateful that they are looking out for authors, having their work stolen from them.
[01:00:24] Speaker A: Right.
[01:00:24] Speaker C: And we just send our note when they shut down our account. We're emailing every day. Of course we're not sitting back just crying. Yeah, but we're having the intention that it's all going to be fixed perfectly and I don't think they've shut us down in a few years.
I think that's part like just rolling with it when things do happen and do you have the tools to roll with it? Or are you going into like, oh my God, I knew it. Life is so hard.
[01:00:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:00:59] Speaker C: Or are you like, everything's always working out for me, and this seems like a temporary speed bump, but I know it's going to work out.
[01:01:06] Speaker A: Yeah, that may be all because I see that I can see the in life you live. You meet so many different people, and some people are like, going to roll with it. It wasn't the best thing that ever happened, but I'm going to make a different choice, go a different way, do something or do something about it, whether they're going to push back or not. And then other people who I knew I should never self publish because Amazon hates me, or I knew I should never do anything because I had this awful cover, like whatever the thing is, allowing it to take over the it's it's fascinating because human behavior is so variable. I'll just say that. And how people handle adversity is fascinating.
And you don't always know how people are going to handle adversity until it happens, which is its own thing.
[01:02:04] Speaker C: Right.
[01:02:05] Speaker A: And I'm not saying people should initially wallow. I mean, you get bad things happen. You're like, oh my God, and it knocks you down a peg. But then the question is, what are you going to do? What then what?
[01:02:15] Speaker C: Right?
[01:02:15] Speaker A: It's the then what. So speaking of then what, how do you see the future of your career?
Because you're on a roll, and what do you want now? Because let me say this. And you have achieved what a lot of people would like to achieve. And I have found that sometimes when people get what they want, they don't know what they want next.
[01:02:41] Speaker C: Yeah. I think it's about asking questions and following what feels fun. So I had a realization. To me, asking the question of myself is usually how I make my discovery. So we were on a Money Magic call, which is the group we have for authors. It's a monthly call where we clear our blocks together, meditate, lift the energy.
And so I don't remember what the question was, but I realized that actually that work, that coaching authors or coaching creators is where I'd like to move.
[01:03:20] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:03:21] Speaker C: And that surprised me because I was like, oh, because I thought I was. I mean, I don't think I'll ever not be authoring, but anyway, it came as a surprise.
[01:03:29] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:03:31] Speaker C: So I think just asking yourself, what would be fun for me?
What would I like to do if I was sure that I could follow through? What would I like to do.
[01:03:43] Speaker A: If.
[01:03:44] Speaker C: I wasn't afraid of repercussions from other people? What would I like to do if I would still be accepted by everybody?
Because it kind of gets you past a lot of times you're not sure what you want because there's a block there that a secret fear. Like people won't like me if I'm rich, people won't like me. My friends, if I leave them behind and I'm more successful, will hate me. They'll be jealous, they'll stab me in the back, all of those fears. They'll feel bad about themselves.
[01:04:10] Speaker A: Oh, that's fascinating. Yes, I hear what you're saying. I mean, I hear what you're saying. Do you think people realize that those are their fears? Because I know people have what I have found, especially reading books about abundance, is people have a lot of feelings about money or feelings about people with money or their perception of people with money. You know what I mean? It's so interesting.
Okay. I've always thought of money as a fairly neutral thing.
I have insecurities about it. I'd like to have it, and I don't want to ever need it and not be able to get it. All that said, I don't have feelings about it. But you will hear people like, we're just talking about there's like this Mercedes called the G Wagon, which I just learned about. And somebody was like, oh, all G Wagon people are something because the car costs X. And I thought, wow, that's so interesting. I literally have never thought anything about people with this square Mercedes. I literally have no thoughts, okay, let me pass the car and not hit the car. That's cute. It's an interesting shape. I wonder if it's aerodynamic. These are the little thoughts I've had about this car and that's it. And I didn't realize people had imbued so many thoughts or even, well, he's driving a Honda, so that means I'm like, oh my God, how have you married? The way they just spend their money, whatever, with a whole list of traits when I don't even see them as related. But if people have those feelings outward, then they probably also have those feelings inward, right?
[01:05:39] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[01:05:40] Speaker A: And I think that was surprising. So then is it difficult I'll ask you, because you've observed other people is it difficult for people to clear those blocks or are people even aware of those? Or do you ask people like, what do you think of rich people? And they say X, Y or Z, and then you can sort of see the reason why even though they say they want money, they might not want it because they want to become the evil, I don't know, scrooge McDuck. I mean, you know what I mean? Or like Mr. Burns or whatever. I can't think of any more negative, but those kind of things.
[01:06:09] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. In my book, I have a list of projections people have about rich people that you could go through. And I think and for me, a lot of it was that it was like the I don't know, because I'm a hippie. It was like rich people are bad for the environment.
It's like the Lorax guy, they make the choices that kill the earth. And I didn't want to be that.
There are people who aren't connected to their community, who don't care, who are making their money off the backs of others, who don't care.
They want the best for their kids, but they don't care about the other people, so they put them in a better school.
I chose a magnet school because I wanted my kids to be in the hood with the so then I had this point of view, like, oh, people in the foothills who go to the foothills schools don't want racial diversity. They don't care about kids that don't look like their kids.
[01:07:05] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:07:06] Speaker C: So I never wanted to be aligned with any of those people because I have opinions about those people, right. So then I had to be like, okay, where is that holding me back?
Am I afraid if I wear designer shoes I'm going to be judged like them or whatever it is? Not all rich people suck.
[01:07:24] Speaker A: Right, but aren't there two fundamental issues? There's what's right for you, but there's also maybe not, like, I don't know, setting a homeless encampment on fire, you know what I mean?
There's what you do doing things that are actively wrong or yeah, those are like, a lot of moral questions I have, but I don't know if I tie them to money or choices I make specifically. That's interesting. Yeah.
[01:07:48] Speaker C: That's what I loved about Rachel Rogers book. We should all be millionaires. Is she's, you know, because she's kind of looking at that self image thing like you okay, you are BIPOC or like you're in the marginalized community, and so maybe you think riches aren't available to you. Maybe you think they're not for you, but in fact, you are the ones we need to make millionaires because you're going to do the right thing for your community.
So it's like getting, I don't know, sort of not a responsibility, but a trust. And it's trust in yourself. I'm not going to be the one who shits on the small guy when I'm rich.
I'm not going to be that one.
And trusting yourself, that okay. That means that I can handle money.
I'm willing to receive it. Now that I realized and worked through that block, I can trust myself to do a great job with my money.
[01:08:48] Speaker A: But do you believe that money amplifies people, their character they otherwise had? So I was just reading this article, so I drink Kombucha often, and my son and I were talking about Kombucha for some reason, I don't know the thing itself. And so I was googling GT kombucha. And then, you know how you put in Google something, and the next word that comes up is like, lawsuit? And I was like, wait, what? So then I went down a rabbit hole, like the last couple of days, reading about a lawsuit about the Dave guy who ran GTS, and he had a I don't call it food production, but a drink production place somewhere like, let's say it's Carson or somewhere somewhere west of downtown or east of downtown. And it was well, he hired people who were undocumented and then didn't pay them and all of this. And I thought, okay, well, if I were going to run a successful kombucha company, I don't think the first thing I would do is how can I cut costs and explain people and not let them go to the bathroom? I don't think I would do that. I don't think I can't imagine myself doing that. What would have to happen for me to be that person? So then I always think, well, then that would amplify because that means that if all the allegations being true, he would exploit people on a small level, and the behavior is not, like, shocking and out of the box. Right. And they talk about especially when people win the lottery, it sort of amplifies whatever. If it's good, it amplifies their, I don't know, philanthropy or whatever, or it magnifies their craving need to hold on to cash and be mean to people.
So do you talk to people about that? Like being good stewards? I guess. So if your fear is that you're not a good steward, then making a conscious decision to be a good steward.
[01:10:26] Speaker C: Yeah, or just like a lot of times these fears are in the subconscious, so they don't realize until they're going. So then it's just like making the decision to stop smoking. They just go, oh, I'm not going to do that.
We bring the anti consciousness into the consciousness for them to look at and go, that's not worthy. And then they don't have a charge on rich people anymore or private school people or whatever. They had a charge on where they had made some judgment and then didn't want to be judgible themselves.
[01:10:55] Speaker A: Right.
That's. Oh, God. So true. Okay, so I do have one last question, which is going to just be completely different. What kind of romance do you want to write in the future?
Because I do think let me say this. I myself think a lot about what I want my books to say, only because somebody asked me, what do you want your books to say? And I thought, really? I can say things.
And so I do spend some time thinking about what I'm trying to achieve when I'm storytelling. And do you have a future thought about what kind of stories you want to tell?
[01:11:37] Speaker C: I think I'm leaning into the paranormal.
It just feels juicy to me.
I do think I am expecting somehow this relationship upgrade situation to possibly change.
If my fans are listening, I'm sure it'll still be hot, don't worry. But I do think, well, my editor just said, like, the last book I wrote has the strongest heroine. She's read from me. So I do think that's going to start infiltrating the work.
[01:12:13] Speaker A: Well, that works, especially with paranormal or if you to write urban fantasy or something, because then the stronger they are, the better those plots are often.
That's fascinating. That's fascinating. Do you ever worry about I'm going to ask you this. I never ask people this because I think the answer is no for most authors. But you've written way more books than I intend to in my life. Do you ever worry about running out of ideas or iterations? I know.
[01:12:38] Speaker C: Never ever. Yeah. I just always have a story in my head.
[01:12:42] Speaker A: I'm going to ask you, this is just a practical thing because I know what I do. What do you do with the stories that pop up in your head? Do you write them all down or what do you do to how can you say this? Yeah. So your brain can work on the.
[01:12:55] Speaker C: You need to work on yeah, I have a plot Bunny folder.
[01:12:58] Speaker A: Okay, I'm sorry. I'm just thinking about it because I have a plot Bunny book, and I left it I have a second house. I left it at my second house, and my friend was staying there, and she's dropping it off. She flew back and she's dropping it off, and I was like, thank you. Because now I can transfer all of them to the one blue notebook where I keep all the plot funny ideas. And actually I wanted to go through it because I write the ideas down, but I never go back and look at the book. And I was actually thinking of looking at it because I wonder what's in there.
[01:13:29] Speaker C: Cool.
[01:13:30] Speaker A: Yeah, because the new idea comes, and I never look back at the old ones. I'm always like, oh, the new thing is so shiny. And the next shiny thing, I'm like, oh, I'm going to go for the shiny thing. But I never look back at what the old ideas were and whether or not they're valid or I should think about them. I just want to get them out of my head.
[01:13:47] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:13:49] Speaker A: Awesome. Okay, so what's the next thing you're doing? So you're doing more coaching?
[01:13:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm going to run a course starting in January for the Right to Riches. It's an eight week course where we have a weekly call, we vibe together, set our intention for the new year, clear our blocks, all of that stuff. So people who took it last year already by May were having a better year than had already made more in the year the previous year. So I think it's a great way to start the new year.
And then I'm part of a Kickstarter right now, so that's super.
[01:14:27] Speaker A: Oh, that's a whole nother conversation we can have. I did a retreat with Anthea, like in January. Not about Kickstarter, just about us getting together because we hadn't seen each other in four years or three years or whatever it was. But the whole Kickstarter thing is an absolutely fascinating place to be now for writers.
[01:14:47] Speaker C: Yeah. So this is my first try, and it's been super fun.
[01:14:51] Speaker A: It's super fun. I have so many questions about how you're planning to handle fulfillment, but that's neither here nor there because that seems to be the bugaboo for a lot of people. Just a difficult not I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying they're like, okay, now I've agreed to do this 3000 thing due. Am I going to be signing books for the rest of my life? Am I going to have a garage full of things that I have to cobble together?
And that's super interesting, the fulfillment part.
[01:15:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:15:21] Speaker A: But I think it's super fun to have enthusiastic people who are super enthusiastic about what you're doing. And that's the thing. I think that Kickstarter is giving to authors that sort of injection of huge enthusiasm.
[01:15:38] Speaker C: Yeah. No, exactly. It lets the readers be a part of a project, which I think is super fun.
[01:15:46] Speaker A: Yes. Back from the days of, like, read my first paragraph and tell me what you think. But they can be, like, a little more integral, and readers love it. Trust me. I get emails from readers all the time who would love to be more involved in many ways, and I don't have ways for them to be involved, which is a different conversation. Okay, so the Kickstarter and then the coaching, and then what is your next romance coming out?
[01:16:05] Speaker C: I am dropping one on Vella right now, chapter by chapter.
[01:16:09] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:16:12] Speaker C: Once that's complete, I can release it. So it might not be till March by the time I'm done dropping. And then you have to wait 30 days.
[01:16:21] Speaker A: Okay.
You're doing all the fun things.
[01:16:26] Speaker C: Yeah, totally.
[01:16:27] Speaker A: That's so great. I love that you're having fun with this business and keeping it light.
[01:16:34] Speaker C: Yes. Thank you.
[01:16:36] Speaker A: And so with that, I'm going to say thank you so much, Renee Rose, for spending this time with me and talking about all the good stuff.
[01:16:43] Speaker C: Thank you. It's been so fun.
[01:16:45] Speaker A: All right. Thank you so much.
[01:16:47] Speaker C: All right, bye.
[01:16:53] Speaker A: This has been a time to thrill with me, your host, Amy Austin. If you enjoyed today's episode, I hope you'll share, rate and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. It will help others to find and enjoy my conversations with brilliant women creators.
[01:17:10] Speaker B: Also, please hit the subscribe button on your podcast app.
[01:17:13] Speaker A: In addition to hosting this podcast, I am also the author of the Nicole Long series of legal thrillers. The first three books in the Nicole Long series are now live.
[01:17:22] Speaker B: You can download outcry Witness, Major Crimes.
[01:17:26] Speaker A: And without consent to your e reader right now. The fourth book in the new series.
[01:17:31] Speaker B: The Murders Began, is available for pre.
[01:17:33] Speaker A: Order wherever you get your books. I'm also the author of the Casey Court series of legal thrillers. These titles are available wherever books are sold. Your local library and also an audiobook. You can also find this podcast on Facebook at a time to thrill.
[01:17:50] Speaker B: Thanks for listening and I'll be back.
[01:17:52] Speaker A: With you soon with more great conversation, Asia.
